Unveiling the Essentials of Leadership: Cultivating Trust and Influence in Team Dynamics

In this episode, we deliver the first of a two-part series (originally aired as one episode) where we were guests on the Access Ideas podcast with Janna Stam. We dive deep into the nuances of leadership influence, communication dynamics, and trust's intricate nature.

Janna led us through an introspective journey, questioning what these terms mean in our lives and work today and how they have evolved. Linda shared that her views on trust are like a sense of belonging and reliability, while Brian discussed the ongoing process of becoming a student of leadership. We also challenge listeners with questions about building trust in ourselves and our teams. How do we balance self-trust with instilling trust in others?

Join us for this enlightening discussion about leadership, communication, and trust, and discover how these elements intertwine to shape our professional and personal lives. 

Please tune in next week for part two of this conversation, where we dive a little bit deeper into some ideas about communication, listening, and building a healthy team culture.

You are invited to join Leadership Vision Online, free to the next 150 members! This new community allows you to connect with like-valued individuals, network, and learn from others while elevating your leadership skills through exclusive resources, live events, Q&As, workshops, and member-led discussions.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:06

You are listening to the Leadership Vision podcast, our show helping you build a positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this for 25 years so that people are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and welcome to a special edition of the Leadership Vision podcast. Now it's special because today we bring you the first part of a fascinating two-episode series, which originally aired as one episode, on the Access Ideas podcast with Yana Stam. We were guests on that podcast and had the pleasure of being interviewed by her for a very thought provoking dialogue about the nuances of leadership, the dynamics of communication and the intricate nature of trust, among other things. Now the Access Ideas podcast explores culture, psychology, well-being and even leadership through expert interviews and discussions. The show offers deep insights and I think you're going to find it really valuable. Yana is a great interviewer and it was really fun to be on. I guess the other end of the process of making a podcast, where we just kind of had to show up and speak from our own experience and dialogue and chat she asked some really great questions was so well prepared and we actually recorded for 90 minutes, which is why we're breaking this up into two. You should definitely check out some of her other episodes on Access Ideas, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Okay, so in this episode we dive deep into the essence of leadership. Brian describes leadership simply as influence and how we harness that influence as pivotal. Linda adds a compelling perspective on distinguishing between a leader and leadership, emphasizing that a leader is someone who puts that influence into action. We also talk about our philosophy and work with clients and the complexities of communication and trust. Yana led us through an introspective journey, questioning what these terms mean in our lives and work today and how they have evolved.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Linda shared that her views on trust is like a sense of belonging and reliability, while Brian discusses the ongoing process of becoming a student of leadership. We also challenge listeners with questions about building trust in ourselves and our teams. How do we balance self-trust with instilling trust in others? So join us on this enlightening journey through leadership, communication and trust and discover how these elements intertwine to shape our professional and personal lives. Tune in next week or click the link in show notes as we bring you part two of this conversation, where we dive a little bit deeper into some ideas about communication, listening and building a healthy team culture. Okay, so now here's this conversation between myself and Yana Stam of the Access Ideas podcast, and Dr Linda and Brian Schuprin Enjoy.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Welcome to Access Ideas. Linda, brian and Nathan. It's fantastic to have you on the show today.

Speaker 2: 2:59

Thanks for having us. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 3:01

It's good to be here. I'm so excited to get started today. We have a lot to talk about. I think one of the reasons we initially thought this would be a great conversation is we all understand the importance of leadership and building trust and establishing strong communication, and we're all seeing a bit of a deterioration in those qualities in some respects, or certainly there's opportunity to grow those qualities, I would say, amongst many people and many groups. I think a lot of people are looking for insight and guidance on this. But before we get started, maybe we can define and explore some of these terms, because they're pretty common but they're not always agreed upon. So when I say the word leadership, what does that mean to you?

Speaker 3: 3:46

All right, I'll take that. What leadership means to me is anyone who has influence, and so I believe that everyone is a leader, because everyone has influence, and so part of what my passion is is to help people understand what their influence is like where their influence is most needed and among whom like the type of people that they influence the best. That's how I would go after leadership.

Speaker 4: 4:12

And it's distinguished from a leader. So a leader is someone that's maybe been put in charge, that has a position of authority, that has some followers around them, and I think the leadership piece is the influence in action.

Speaker 3: 4:26

As a matter of fact, we were at an event yesterday where we heard a guest speaker and he actually spoke about this very specific topic. Now he's a retired executive for some major health firms and what he said specifically was that leadership is an ongoing process. We are always learning. There's not an arrival point to any one person getting to the point where they understand what that is, and he actually posed the question to the audience for us to all consider the implications of what it means to be a student of leadership, which I thought was a really interesting take on the whole idea of leadership.

Speaker 1: 5:04

That leads me to another word that I think of as a bit of an ongoing process, which is communication. It's almost like a practice, and leadership isn't effective if it's a one and done appointment. Right, you mentioned the idea of leader and title, but leadership is a skill, it's a verb. In the sense it's an action word. So I like those definitions. I think that's very helpful because everybody's included and everybody can find an opportunity to be a leader. Let's go on to the word trust. Maybe this one is a little bit more loaded. Maybe there's some stronger differences people hold in this and their opinions of this word. When I say the word trust, when you talk about that, what does that mean to you? When you're talking about that with the clients that you work with?

Speaker 4: 5:57

Great question to think about. You know, what does trust mean to us? We see trust as something that is engendered between a variety of people, where there is a sense of belonging, a sense of I believe that you have my back, I believe that you're going to do what you say you're going to do. I feel trusted. When people say I feel trusted, that usually means I'm known, I feel valued and my contribution is expected.

Speaker 3: 6:28

And for most people that we work with, they always begin with the trust that's happening in between two people, and so some of the words that people are actually looking for is they want to feel that there's a sense of safety and that safety could be anything. You hear people talk about emotional safety, psychological safety, professional safety, but people are putting together this word of trust with safety. And the second thing that we always hear people talk about is trust in its relationship to relationships, and so they're putting that together. So when you think about how people are looking to environments where they can be trusted and they can trust other people, they're looking for that safety and they're looking for the relationship.

Speaker 3: 7:09

But one thing that we do when we're working with our clients is we often ask them what do you need when it comes to trust? So we take it from an outside, external focus to an internal, reflective conversation, asking people what do you need? What styles of trust do you most respond to? Are you one to trust quickly or are you the kind of person that is waiting for someone to earn your trust? We begin with a reflective posture when we have our conversations on trust.

Speaker 4: 7:42

And what gets really interesting is when we ask team members or groups of people do you start from a place of trust or is trust earned? And then usually that gets at the sense of all right, maybe you start from a place of trust, but if you break it like you're dead to me, or it's earned over a series of decisions, over opportunities to work together and find a little success, or fail together well, and keep moving forward. But there's often, you know, and we we force people to to fall in one camp or the other as a as a point of reference.

Speaker 1: 8:25

Yeah, I was listening to this episode recently on your podcast and it made me think and ask myself and the question made me come up with the answer. Or the answer I came up with was I trust people to be human when I first meet them.

Speaker 1: 8:40

So that means you know, I don't expect them to levitate, I expect them to behave in ways that humans behave and then that trust grows exponentially as I see evidence of behavior that's consistent over time and there's reciprocity there. But I think that's that's sort of the definition that I walk around with.

Speaker 1: 9:01

I would say I trust people generously when I first meet them because I think going in with that attitude tends to bring you closer to the people that invite it, and you're going to find out pretty quickly if somebody doesn't deserve trust with small incidents or small examples. But I thought that's such a great question because we use the word trust all the time and when I had to define it for myself, it took me a few minutes. It took me a little time. So maybe, maybe you can talk a little bit about your own evolving. How have you changed your ability to trust or your approach to trust?

Speaker 3: 9:44

That's a great question. My mind just spun into three to 30 different directions with that Because, as you were talking, it reminded us of the team sessions we do on trust and one of the beginning statements is just asking people to define it. It's like, what does it mean to you? And we do that in conversations, so they're turning and talking to their neighbor, getting in groups of three where they are then having a discussion. That discussion drives their definition deeper into them. So that's one of the first things is, everyone brings to the table their own definition, understanding and examples of what trust means.

Speaker 3: 10:22

Secondarily, you also mentioned this issue or this aspect of time and trust, and we believe that we are asking people to trust in time, like in this moment, but most people are not wired that way to trust in the moment. Some people trust more in their history with you, and so they may not demonstrate trust in your relationship until six or nine months from now. There are people that trust in who you're going to be, so they may be quick to trust you now because they trust more in what you're becoming, and so that is also different for each person is how they show up and at what time do they actually engage in their trusting of other people.

Speaker 4: 11:42

And for me to answer your question, I have changed a lot.

Speaker 4: 11:48

I would say that I used to be very generous with my trust, very generous with my trust, openness, curious that's how people would describe me.

Speaker 4: 12:00

I would almost give too much information or try to help. When we're onboarding someone, give them too many things that I started to realize would come back and bite me. And so I think, through a series of having my trust betrayed, having my degree of trust or generous trust be challenged, sometimes even taken advantage of, like oh, linda's still going to like me, we're good, we're set, I started to realize that I'm looking back and there's many points of me being burned, me being taken advantage of, and I think I armored up a little bit and my boundaries shifted. And so I have to remind myself yes, I assume that you're human and I want to be present to you and aware, but oftentimes in now, in my late forties, I have switched and there is this sense of me where, all right, it'll be earned, it'll be earned over time. It's just not, you know, freely given, because I don't want to be taken advantage of. So maybe I have baggage, but that's a different podcast.

Speaker 1: 13:20

So would you say, your attitude? Is your attitude more like a show me what you got and then I'll decide whether to trust you? Would you say.

Speaker 4: 13:28

Let's wait and see.

Speaker 1: 13:29

Yeah, so, yeah so.

Speaker 4: 13:30

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I will embrace you fully, I will be present, I'll be generous in the space, but not necessarily with all the future steps that I would imagine kind of leaning in. So it's not yeah, so it's more of a let's build this over time so it can be strong and it can be something we're both proud of.

Speaker 3: 14:00

One of the things that I'm struggling with and this is part of some of the conversations we have with those that we're coaching and that is I have learned about myself in the in response to it. Have I changed? Early on in my career, I put a lot of trust in other people at the expense of trusting in myself, my abilities and my capacities. The older I've gotten, I have learned that it isn't so much a matter of trusting others as it is trusting myself, and the trusting of myself is now on the increase, and I'm finding that that is more of a struggle or an authentic acceptance of who I really am, that I am trustworthy, that I have the talent and the experience to do the things that are ahead of me, and I have found that in my earlier career, I have often stepped aside in some areas of responsibility and trusted other people so that I wouldn't have to go.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Or do you feel you've been burned as well? Or do you think you've been burned Absolutely, because I'm a trust first.

Speaker 3: 15:02

I'm a trust first. I'm an encourage. I will believe in you, I'll give you the second chance, the third chance. I mean that's just my natural inclination, even thinking of some of the things that are happening in our company lately. I'm quick to trust and I'm also quick to fear. Like fear of what if this goes wrong and that's part of the lessons I've learned over life is that when you over trust, you can sink, and that, to me, is something that is a responsibility of leaders is to ask themselves if they're over. Trusting of someone is like filling that person's boat full of water and at some point they're gonna go under because the other person maybe. They don't know their own capacities or their own skill sets and we're entrusting them for some responsibility and not empowering them and not connecting with them relationally and not really understanding what their capacities are. We're just trusting them to figure it out and then, as a leader, we go some other direction.

Speaker 4: 15:58

So sometimes we can tip people over quickly. Nathan, I wanna hear from, or, if you don't mind, what do? You think. If you don't mind, I wanna turn it to Nathan, because he has great examples.

Speaker 2: 16:09

So I was about to jump in and ask another question, and that is and Niana, sorry for stealing the interview but so, like, as leaders, you're trying to build trust in a team, right, like Niana, your boss, and the people you work with. Like they're trying to create a team where everyone trusts each other so they can be more productive. But then, brian, what you're talking about as a leader also has to trust themselves, and they have to, like, build their own trust within themselves. And so how do you, as a leader, as a person of influence, how do you do both of those things simultaneously where maybe you're struggling with do I trust myself? Can I really do this job? Are these people looking up to me? But I also have to instill that in them and I mean, I think I know the answer, not that there is an answer, but I don't know. I'm gonna push that back on the three of you. Like, how do you do that all at the same time?

Speaker 1: 17:01

And it reminds me of another one of your episodes where you talk about the leader having the qualities they want to cultivate in others, right, so compassion was a great example. Self-care you were talking a little bit about self-care. I think trust is a perfect example of that. So if you trust yourself, you can trust others with some of the similar qualities. Not that you might not have the same qualities, but the way you learn to trust yourself can lead you to trust others with similar observation. Reflection giving people opportunities, ensuring that they're coming back and not overfilling their boat, like Brian mentioned. But Brian and Linda way in here. I'd love to hear what you think.

Speaker 3: 17:46

Well, part of what you're speaking to. I'm not sure if we said it in the podcast or if I said it in my head or to a client, or I was writing it there today, I don't know. But what you're saying, yana, about the reflective piece. We have found in our research that there is a direct correlation between a leader's capacity for fill-in-the-blank and their capacity for that in other people. So this reciprocity is the more I have learned to trust my authentic self, the more I can trust other people and their authentic self and where they are. And the same thing goes for self-compassion the more reflective and self-compassionate someone is towards themselves, the more compassionate they can be towards other people. And what? In my experience, I have found that it is sometimes our inability to truly understand what trust means to us. Then we overreach or underreach or over trust with other people because we don't understand ourselves what it actually needs. Does that make sense? Okay?

Speaker 4: 18:54

That's great. I think it's on the leaders that we've worked with and sometimes people want to come to the table and, like I'm trying to engender trust, I was like you're trying to get people to like you.

Speaker 3: 19:07

It's not about trust.

Speaker 4: 19:08

So the people-pleasing nature and almost it feels sometimes manipulative or listening, and so we'll sometimes mirror back what we're hearing. Like, you're right, I just want to be liked. I actually don't want them and I want to trust. I want, through being liked, I want them to trust me, or some of them, just you know, I want to demonstrate that I am just tough and I can show up and make hard decisions. I'm like. Well, they're not going to trust you if you don't realize that they are human and they have needs.

Speaker 4: 19:42

And so sometimes we say how are you doing with warmth and competence? Because it's the mix of warmth and competence that leads to a sense of how which lever to push to engender more trust for a certain person or a certain scenario. Some people are really great at showing that they're competent. Some people are really great to be, you know, warm and I'm with you, Except for sometimes that warm I'm with you could lean to people-pleasing and the competence over rotating on that could just feel very authoritarian. So it's the mix. It's the mix of both and sometimes that's a quick read on how you're doing and how do you improve in the realm of trust.

Speaker 3: 20:25

Yeah, I want to comment off of that authoritarian experience, because most people are remembering the experiences where their trust has been broken.

Speaker 3: 20:35

Now, that may not mean that that individual has an overwhelming evidence of negative experiences with trust.

Speaker 3: 20:43

The brain just remembers the negative more than the positive. And so for leaders to understand that that when they're asking people to entrust themselves to their leadership, just for leaders to remember that most people are going to remember the reasons why they shouldn't trust someone against the reasons why they should, because the brain just hangs on to the negative more than the positive. And so then the burden of trust actually falls on a leader, or maybe to some of those that understand trust on the team. But to provide the overwhelming evidence that we can be trustworthy, to provide overwhelming evidence that the team is a safe place, to provide overwhelming evidence that there's belonging here, no matter what the conversation or the decision, to create a sense of comfort, a sense of friendship and a sense of safety, so that trust can be part of the currency that's actually happening, and then say positive trust, not that negative, prickly memory that people may have of past experiences and maybe this is a good time to segue to the idea of relationships and positive perceptions.

Speaker 1: 21:50

So one of my favorite examples is the relationship researcher, john Gottman, who talks about the magic ratio of five to one. So every negative feeling or interaction between partners because he studied partners there has to be five positive feelings or interactions at least to kind of balance those out. And I can't help but believe this is probably present in the workplace and our friendships. If you're surrounded by people who are outweighing those positive with negatives, you're very quickly going to focus on that. And it's very delicate because our perception of positive and negative can also be impacted by our preferences, by the level of trust we might have, how we perceive that person. Nathan, it looks like you might be wanting to chime in there, did you know?

Speaker 2: 22:39

I was just thinking of the eye camera.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Brian, or Brian or Linda said this is one of our trust podcast about how trust is built over all these small moments over time, and so that five to one ratio is you have to just constantly be proving yourself to be a trustworthy person or showing trust or whatever.

Speaker 2: 23:00

And all these little small moments, everything from did you pick up milk at the store, like you said you were going to, to giant things, and it's all those little things, and so that's really interesting thinking about Gottman's research there in in light of trust and how you're like every moment, every interaction is an opportunity to either build that trust with someone or to demolish it. And to Brian's point, you know people are going to remember those little moments where you, you didn't do that and so how, how intentional that we have to be as as leaders, as people have influenced, as just human beings. You know your earlier point of you just trust, people are going to show up as a human, like every interaction we have with someone is a moment, an opportunity to to do something with trust, either on the positive or the negative. So so, yeah, sorry, sorry, for my facial expressions were.

Speaker 3: 23:54

I didn't mean to interrupt you but it was just it was very interesting thinking about how that connects so well along that same lines in in our work we've done a lot of research and application around. Heidi Grant Halvorson studies on providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Speaker 4: 24:12

Her book is no one understands you, and what do you do about it?

Speaker 3: 24:16

So we use that, that research, over and over and over again. So I like your statistic better because I think hers is the the six to one, so five to one is better.

Speaker 3: 24:26

But what I like to remind people of is that as she did longitudinal studies in in in her work, she was finding that the overwhelming evidence to the contrary before you can begin to change someone's limiting beliefs or their cognitive bias, it's a six to nine month process of being consistent, of providing that evidence to the contrary of what they're thinking, before a person starts to bend in your direction. Now that's a lot of work but the just a simple practice of like what Nathan's saying is. The lesson here for all of us is leaders are constantly weaving. They're either weaving or they're unraveling and that constant weaving is building a stronger fabric of relationships between themselves and their people. So if we're weaving trust, that's like a daily weave. So we're going to create strong, meaningful human relationships through that daily positive experience and, as one of you two said, and those transcendent moments of trust we have, that really great expression of it happens within a large group of people. People are going to remember that as well.

Speaker 3: 25:36

And if we can provide that intentional juxtaposition as a leader, that daily consistent weaving together of trust that has these exclamation points of like these grand statements of trust, that also does a great work with the brain, because the brain remembers better when you have those swings of emotion, not all the time, but enough so that I can zoom you back and say, oh, I can trust the organization and, yes, I can trust you.

Speaker 3: 26:02

Yes, I can trust a big decision and, yes, I can trust you. So, when it comes to leading this, yes, it's a constantly, a constant paying attention. And one of the things I want to encourage people to do is when people say, well, I don't know if I can start a habit like I don't know if I can do everything something once a day. It's like, well, how many times you check social media? That becomes a habit. So I guess I change that into you know, how is it that we do these gentle, weaving moments of trust that build a consistency? When we build a consistency, then humans begin to expect that they expect to have demonstrations of trust and actually gets easier.

Speaker 1: 26:39

I love that. Maybe we can talk a little bit about building trust within teams or groups, so discussing some practical examples and strategies for fostering trust and this was outlined in one of your recent episodes that I'm happy to link to because I think you get right down into the very practical guidelines and giving people food for thought. One of the first things to consider is facilitating the whole person acceptance and growth, so accepting people for who they are. One of the other terms related to this that both of us have talked about is API. Assume positive intent, assume that people are coming from a place where they want to help or they want to bring their whole self to the problem, whether it's a work problem or relationship problem. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that, and if you have any personal examples or client stories, I'd love to hear that too.

Speaker 3: 27:38

Oh boy, where to start? Oh my gosh, the acceptance of the whole person. That is such a strong trigger, isn't the word for me. But that's just if you can imagine someone as a map. Like someone's life as a map, I think most people try to fold that map up as small as possible so they can see the smallest little bit of someone's life and understand that and then assume that that little square is who that person is. That's easy, but the more you know someone, the more that it changes your perspective.

Speaker 3: 28:23

But we're expecting that of people too. We want people to understand us wholly and to accept us as authentically as we are. So why don't we have that same openness and capacity for someone else? And part of our work is in helping other people understand someone's whole story. I had a recent example of someone where we told part of their backstory and most people had no idea who that is, and without knowing that part of where this man came from and how he was raised, his relationship with his siblings, it sheds a whole different light on how it is that he shows up consistently, and so part of what we're trying to do is we're trying to demonstrate and share a person's story as effectively and respectfully as possible, so that others have more openness and acceptance to who that person authentically is.

Speaker 3: 29:24

I just think that we see people like through a prism and we're looking for short, easy stories of explanation and all you have to do is shift that person by one degree and you get a whole new landscape into that and who that person is. I think it's just this huge opportunity for discovery.

Speaker 4: 29:42

We've worked with some organizations that their teams are really buttoned up. They each have a personal brand. They can tell you what they're doing in a few words. They have everything set. They've told you you're, you know the, the, and then I almost lost it all.

Speaker 4: 29:59

And then we, then we got to this point and oftentimes we have found that the acceptance of the whole self is break out of that Brand elevator speech about yourself to really step into, like a different way of Learning about yourself. Look back in time and observe yourself when you were in high school and had that first job. What elements of that job can we pull forward and that you still act and interact with? Are you still the person that people go to when they need things organized or they need someone to tell people what to do? Sometimes, rattling a well-crafted Personal brand speech Really begins to get at what Brian was talking about, and that is the, the spinning of the prism. Or let's look at it in a different way and let's see the nuances, not just name. This is who I am and what I bring, and this is why I got the job I did. Instead, all right, now, what? Now? Now, through a variety of changes and adversity and opportunity. Now, who are you, and, and, and can you? Can you speak about that?

Speaker 1: 31:09

Yes, yes, and this is where I think listening as a superpower Comes in, because we can draw so much more out of people and learn about them so much more when we show up and listen. We're not just waiting for that elevator pitch to end and go on to the next piece.

Speaker 3: 31:26

Because listening Places you with that person. It places you alongside of them more than face-to-face and.

Speaker 3: 31:36

When you are sitting alongside of someone Metaphorically, then you're not in the way, and so I and part of what we're trying to do is sit alongside someone, like in the passenger seat, if you will, and let them narrate their, their own journey and just ask Just simple questions, and the simplicity of the question is directly related to how closely you're listening, because we are often surprised at how much people share with us. I believe it's partly because we're in a listening posture and we're just asking someone to maybe share a little more, or who, who else was there, what was their, their name and what time in history was that? Again, and this, let them go sometimes. I believe that the best way to Allow someone or to create a place where someone will share with you is to not have an agenda and to not have any questions that you're coming to prepare to ask.

Speaker 3: 32:35

Because, that puts you in a whole different posture to listen right away and the best listening is sometimes when someone listens to themselves.

Speaker 4: 32:43

So, if we can really hold space maybe this is what you're talking about, I got it like you're, you're holding space for people, you're really listening, you're showing up, you're listening with your whole self, allowing someone to speak. What we find is that when that person then is speaking, they're hearing themselves say things out loud into the universe, that they're learning from themselves, and so we will. Yeah, we will often ask what did you hear yourself saying? What? What stood out to you that you actually said out loud, and not that of you know, they just said it to me or they said it to Brian, but that they were willing to say it out loud because maybe they really believe it or maybe they really needed to remind themselves that that story was powerful and they can take that learning forward and learn from their own lived experience.

Speaker 3: 33:29

Listening is a huge contributor. To trust the ability for someone to trust you, I think really Stems from your one is to listen to them, and by that listening it's almost like you're saying it's okay to be close, you know, it's okay to share. And how many people do we know are really great listeners?

Speaker 2: 33:53

Thank you again to Yana and the Access Ideas podcast for having us on. As I said, it was just really fun to record that in sort of a different format of a podcast for us and I hope we're going to be doing more of these types of episodes here this year and next week you'll get to listen to the second half of this longer episode where we go a little bit more into that idea of listening that we brought up at the end of this episode how that helps to build team trust, and then also talk a little bit about strengths and building autonomy on a team and some other, I think, really helpful stuff that will allow you and your team to build more of a positive team culture this year. Thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this for 25 years so that people are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy.

Speaker 2: 34:45

If you found value from this podcast episode, you can visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom to check out any of our other resources, and I would highly encourage you to go check out the Access Ideas podcast. You can find that anywhere where you get your podcast or simply click the link in the description. It'll take you right there, and we would love it if you could subscribe to our podcast. Subscribe to Access Ideas podcast. Join our email newsletter, where we regularly send updates on how to build trust on your team, how to establish communication, all sorts of stuff about leadership and working and living with your strengths. We really think you will find it valuable. I'm Nathan Freeberg, on behalf of our entire team. Thanks for listening.