Leading with Cultural Sensitivity: Insights from Elizabeth Hoemeke on Managing Diverse Teams

Have you ever considered the intricate dance of leading a culturally diverse team? Elizabeth Hoemeke, CIO of One Inc., joins us in this episode and brings her frontline experience to the fore, capturing the essence of what it means to lead with cultural sensitivity. She dissects the layers of understanding necessary to appreciate each team member's unique background while confronting the biases we may unknowingly harbor. Our conversation with Elizabeth sheds light on the delicate balance between embracing diversity as a strength and the challenging task of breaking down cultural barriers that can impede progress.

Navigating the waters of change within a team can often feel like captaining a ship through a storm. Elizabeth shares insights on building trust piece by piece and the power of one-on-one connections in creating a solid foundation. The episode highlights a team's transformation, from the 'aha' moments sparked by direct communication to the 'drop the rope' technique, which can revolutionize your leadership style. Such strategies underline the patience required as a leader, where the pursuit of goals must be weighed with the growth and development of the team.

Finally, we take a step back to reflect on how leadership grows and adapts in the face of increasing team diversity. Elizabeth offers a candid look at the challenges of scaling from intimate team familiarity to leading a larger, more varied group. This episode is an exploration of the necessary evolution of leadership styles and a testament to the enduring effort needed to foster a nurturing environment. We round out our discussion with an invitation for you to share your journey, as we remain committed to aiding your path towards an inclusive and innovative leadership vision.

You are invited to join Leadership Vision Online, free to the next 150 members! This new community allows you to connect with like-valued individuals, network, and learn from others while elevating your leadership skills through exclusive resources, live events, Q&As, workshops, and member-led discussions.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

How do you create environments where everyone feels they have the opportunity and obligation to speak up? Today's workplace is more vibrant and diverse than ever, but have you ever paused to consider the power of cultural diversity in shaping innovative leadership? Imagine a room where every voice, regardless of its origin, is not just heard but valued for the unique perspective that it brings. A room where you, as the leader, have created an environment where everyone feels they have the opportunity to speak up. This can become your strategic advantage as a leader. You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build a positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this for the past 25 years, so that people are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and in this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we dive into the intricacies of leading a culturally diverse team in the global business arena with our guest, elizabeth Hemeky, cio of One Inc. Elizabeth was a client of ours not long ago and she shares her valuable insights and experiences in navigating the complexities of cultural diversity within her team, from fostering effective communication to understanding the unique backgrounds of each team member. Elizabeth discusses the strategies that she employs to create a cohesive and inclusive work environment, but this work is never done, as you'll soon hear. In this episode, we offer a look at how Elizabeth is tackling this among her very unique and diverse team, sharing the challenges and triumphs of managing a team that spans across different cultures, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, empathy and clear expectations in leadership. As you listen, consider how cultural diversity plays a role in your own leadership style. How do you approach the challenges and opportunities of leading a diverse team? And now expand your thinking. When it comes to the word diversity, think beyond just, maybe, color or ethnicity, and include things like family, origin, economic concerns, educational background and more.

Speaker 1: 2:07

As you listen to this episode, reflect on this. How can you yes, you, listener cultivate an inclusive environment that leverages the strengths of diversity to enhance team performance and innovation? This is the Leadership Vision Podcast. Let's get started. Elizabeth, we're going to jump in here, and so I'm going to start by asking me some really difficult questions. No, you're not, and then Brian, alinda are going to do most of it. Can you briefly tell us who you are, what your job is and, for starters, where in the world are we talking to you from?

Speaker 2: 2:42

So, well hello.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Hello.

Speaker 3: 2:45

Hi, I'm Elizabeth Hemity. I am the CIO of One Inc. Which is a payments company really focused on, exclusively on the insurance industry, and I am coming to you live from Atlanta.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Well, Georgia, that's exciting. I assume Atlanta Georgia right, Not the country.

Speaker 3: 3:04

Yes.

Speaker 1: 3:05

Wait, Georgia is the country. Georgia is not, yeah, and I'm not coming from Atlanta, either Right, because you might be lost.

Speaker 1: 3:12

Which is oh thank you so much for doing this. We're a little, a little giggly because we've been on here for a while. I wish you could have seen our tech troubles. We do this all the time and I wish you could have seen our tech troubles just to feel a little bit more comfortable, because we're still, we're still, we don't. We don't have our act together, but we do now. So no one move, no one touch anything. We do now.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Well, elizabeth, we're so glad to know you and have been in relationship with you for several years now, at your previous company as well as at One Inc, and when we met you again for the second time, there was a lot happening at One Inc, and what I remember of the time was was kind of this snapshot of a lot of cultures are colliding. So what is it that you want to say about some of the challenges that you faced, especially as the in the role of the CIO?

Speaker 3: 4:09

Oh gosh, there's a lot packed into that question. Every role I've had I've had the great fortune of being able to work with global teams and my previous company. I worked with people in Poland, ireland, germany, the Philippines, the US, all over and it was fantastic. And in that ecosystem I had to get good at getting to know those cultures pretty quickly. And then I realized that it takes years to get to know those cultures and that you uncover things every day that you didn't know before. So when I came to One Inc, I thought, oh, this is going to be a snap.

Speaker 3: 4:47

You know, kind of two main kind of original One Inc was culture, and then we acquired a company based out of India and it has its own unique culture. And what I found is I got to know my leadership team, which was all from the same geographic kind of background. I didn't know as much about the Eastern European culture as I thought, and every country is different and unique and every person is very different and unique. And what I found initially was that there were a lot of biases pro and against different cultures, just because of what they'd heard, not because of a lot of direct experience, and so from day one I had to start breaking down those barriers and those and trying to correct some of those preconceived ideas about how good or bad, smart or not smart, talented, not talented.

Speaker 3: 5:42

You know different teams are around the world and it's been a journey. It really has been a lot tougher than I thought it would be to be a CIO in this role. I thought the thing that was going to be the hardest for me were the really deeply technical big projects and what I found is I've got a great team of super engineers and we kill those projects. I mean, we just we nail them every time. And the hard, hard part of the job is the people part, what you always hear. It sounds kind of cliche, but it's true the people part is the toughest part of the job.

Speaker 4: 6:17

Oh, elizabeth, I want to ask, as these teams are coming together, what did you feel was the first thing that you needed to learn, like what was the first challenge that you identified, that you thought, if I can just get through this, like that initial instinct, if I can just move through this one challenge, it may be better on the other side.

Speaker 3: 6:35

So the probably the most obvious thing that I noticed that was the hardest for me because it was so counter to my personality was that my leadership team expected me to be very authoritative and kind of command and control in my style, like we're waiting for you to tell us what to do. And I had evolved as more of that adaptive, servant type leader that sort of throws things out, say, hey, I'm thinking about this and I expect people to engage with me and say, oh, I think that's a great idea, or I think that's a terrible idea, or we've tried that before, and here's why it failed. And what I typically would get in the early days was just, you know, crickets. And so I thought, okay, is this a passive, aggressive team? Is this? You know what's going on?

Speaker 3: 7:24

And a lot of their management experience with upper management was a very different style than what I was used to. It was people stayed very much in their silos. There wasn't a lot of cross-team collaboration. It's still something that we work on every day, even after two and a half years of me trying to force people. You know, hey, you really need to work together. I expect you to work together and to communicate.

Speaker 3: 7:49

So that was an aspect, and then the other one was the way that they give feedback. The organization had a very direct public feedback style, which was new for me, and one of the guys on my team who's a little bit younger, has been in the US for a long time, said I know, I know I get offended sometimes too by my own people and I said, okay, well, it's not just me. So it was that, you know, I had to sort of toughen up a little bit and understand they're not being unkind or rude or disrespectful in any way. This is just a communication style that they have and that was something I had to get used to and not take it personally.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Elizabeth, when I hear that and when I think about the brightness of who you are as a leader, there is an adaptive nature to you. What I've appreciated when we witnessed you in action with this one ink is that you are still yourself and you are adapting and learning and getting this almost side degree in anthropology by how you were studying the cultures but you were really leaning into. But this is still me and we will go further together and I appreciate your dogged approach there because you do. You have excellent people surrounding you?

Speaker 3: 9:12

Yeah, they are tremendous human beings and they have such, again, a diverse and rich background.

Speaker 4: 9:56

So, elizabeth, I want to ask when you're initially facing this challenge, did you see a greater need to bring clarity to the team on what you were trying to accomplish, or did you find a greater challenge or need to connect with the people individually to really understand what was going on?

Speaker 3: 10:14

Or a mix of both. Yeah, I think initially my style was really to just engage with them one on one and get to know them. Let them get to know me, because with that relationship building comes trust. And also I didn't really ever have to worry about them not giving me their opinion or telling you know. If I asked they would tell me quite bluntly sometimes. But I think getting to know them was my first strategy. And then what I found was a lot of times certain folks on the team were not picking up what I was laying down and if you recall from the training that I brought you guys in for, we repeated collaboration twice.

Speaker 3: 10:57

I do recall that they were getting it. And I remember sitting there and we were going around the table and asking you were asking these questions, you know, tell us how you would approach this, how you would lean into this, and the answers that I was hearing were I would work with my team, I would come up with this process, and the notion that your team is the people in the room, your peer group, was such an incredibly foreign concept that we did. We repeated the whole collaboration session as a way to try to punch through, and I still don't think we punched through yet all the way with everyone. But it is that dogged approach. I just keep at it. And I did have a little bit of a funny breakthrough the other day One of the folks on my team who I just adore.

Speaker 3: 11:45

I love working with him. He's brilliant, a little prickly sometimes and I know you know who I'm talking about. He is absolutely one of my favorite people I've ever met in my life and he calls and he is just so angry and so upset and we had, just like a week earlier, had a discussion about I need you guys to work together. If you have an issue, call each other, pick up the phone, work it out and if you can't, then get me involved. Well, he calls me and he's going crazy, all upset about something, and I said did you call Bob? And I could hear the pause. It was heavy. And he went oh, we just talked about this, didn't we? And I go, yes, we did. And he said I'll call Bob. I'm like, thank you. And I was hit. And then they called each other. They had a great conversation, got it all worked out, it was wonderful. So he got all upset for nothing and I got my day ruined for nothing.

Speaker 3: 12:43

But it's those kind of that's a teaching moment. It was a great teaching moment that these are just. These are skills and muscles that they haven't strengthened a lot and they haven't had to and I'm really pushing hard that and they have to set the example for everyone else. You know, everybody looks at their leaders and they role model the behaviors they see. So I need them to see me exhibiting good behavior and I have to admit sometimes I don't, but I call myself out. I think that's healthy and I need them to practice those behaviors for collaborating and getting to know each other and also giving each other a chance. A lot of times with organizations you've got to undo some bad habits and some behaviors that they've just learned over time and sometimes I feel like a kindergarten teacher. Sometimes I feel like an inadequate professor of nuclear fusion because I'm dealing with such intelligent people. You know I'm trying to fake it till.

Speaker 2: 13:38

I make it oh aren't we?

Speaker 1: 13:40

all.

Speaker 2: 13:40

You're not faking something because you were the CIO of the year in Atlanta two years ago. So, which is wonderful, when you received the Orbea Award and I appreciate the humility about you but also the learning of the culture that there were things that needed to be unlearned, Kind of. When you said redo, that really resonates with me Like you have to actively unlearn so that you can learn the next and it seems like the incremental growth in those opportunities like those are wins. Those are wins.

Speaker 4: 14:14

I wanna ask you a question about how you came alongside of each of the individual team members, because the example that you gave we know some of the backstory, because you are someone who, although you have a very aggressive I might say agenda or vision, you also have had to balance that or find some kind of synchronicity with some kind of patience to understand what each person was bringing. And I saw that as a way of you coming alongside and having compassion for some of the transitions that people were going through, some of the learnings that were there. How did you balance that sense of urgency to fulfill what was being asked and the patience to learn about the individuals and how you could motivate them?

Speaker 3: 14:59

There's a technique that I've used in the past when you sense resistance or just not picking it up, and it is that you just drop the rope. So you just drop the rope and you walk away, and you just leave it and eventually you come back around to it. Now they've had weeks or months or even a year to ruminate on this rope. Then you pick the rope up again. You say, okay, now we're going to do this. They've had time to process, get used to the idea. They maybe have seen others go first. Then when you pick it up again, they're a lot more willing to go along for the ride. They may not be leading the charge, but they're not holding on to the tail, stopping forward momentum. There are a couple of really interesting phenomenon with that. There are behaviors around asking questions as an attempt to thwart progress. So what problem are we trying to solve? Turning it into like prove the math to me, show me the equation that demonstrates, or the data that demonstrates, that this change is necessary. That's a good exercise for me as well, because it really forces me to say it's not just because I think this is a good idea, but there is real data, and because I see what we have in our future.

Speaker 3: 16:27

I see growth. I see growth of the team. So we need to get certain things in place before we actually need them. So I need you to get on board with getting something done now and in place now that you don't think we need and, to be fair, you really don't need it today, but you're going to need it tomorrow. I'd like to go on this journey with everyone in advance of the need. So getting things done in advance of the need has been a little bit of a theme, because sometimes it's the change circle. You want people to go all through all the different phases of grief and resistance and then suddenly they become an evangelist. You want them to get around that change circle as quickly as possible and I think initially some of that duration was literally months to get folks on board.

Speaker 4: 17:17

Okay, now I have a question on that, because I've been around that circle with some executives like yourself before. So I want to ask you, elizabeth, what were your emotions like as you're going around that change circle, as you're trying to inspire and ignite vision in other people and they're learning and trying to present a case to you, and what are you going through? I mean, is there some different types of emotions that are bubbling up that you're really having to recognize? Like, how did that process go for you?

Speaker 3: 17:48

It's still a daily roller coaster, I'll call it. I have to manage my own frustration with they just don't get it. You don't see where we really need to become a more mature, more enterprise ready organization. We're growing so fast. We can't act like the startup that we were. We want to keep the heart of a startup, but we can't operate like a startup or a mature startup. We've got to get there. We've got to get there fast because we're growing so quickly.

Speaker 3: 18:18

And listening to people talk about how I used to know everybody's name and now people get hired and I have no idea who they are. I get on calls and I don't know half the people. I'm like that's growth and that's incredible. It's incredible. It's a big, it's a wonderful problem to have.

Speaker 3: 18:31

But yeah, I had to balance frustration Sometimes. I would just be sad that it's like. This is so hard. It is so incredibly hard and I say it a lot, it's the hardest job I've ever had. Even the 21 hour all-nighters when we did a big technology migration project that I did at this company with my team. I loved that night. It was incredible. We were exhausted, but it was so successful, it was so rewarding.

Speaker 3: 18:59

Everybody was so happy with what we accomplished and how well the whole project went. And then you mirror that with getting people to talk to each other and just having to just repeat the same things over and over again to try to get them to practice those behaviors, because that's what will develop that muscle memory so that it becomes second nature. They just do it and I'm waiting. I'm also still very, I'm still much anticipating when the light bulb kind of goes off and they just start executing this new way of working together and some with some of the group and also just being aware of the people around them a little bit more than maybe they had to in the past new, multiple cultures that they start to interact with. But I've seen some huge, huge growth, huge breakthroughs with a lot of my team Well, with everybody, just some operated a little slower pace, so I'm excited for them to catch up.

Speaker 4: 19:59

I can hear the team growth in your story and I want to ask you about your own personal growth as leaders. When we're leading through change and trying to work and grow with our teams, we, as leaders, can sometimes forecast our own expected growth, but what I want to ask you, elizabeth, is what was some surprise growth that you have seen yourself go through in the last couple of years?

Speaker 3: 20:24

I think I have had to learn how to be a little bit more command and control authoritative, a little bit more dictatorial in the things that I know we need to do, because I don't always have the luxury of waiting for everybody to get there.

Speaker 3: 20:42

So that's been a tough part of my own personal sort of growing a lever and using that lever instead of my default which is we're going to have peace and harmony and everybody's going to get on board and we're all going to do this together. It just doesn't work that way all the time. It actually is pretty rare when it happens like that, so I think that's just sort of learning that I'm in charge, I am ultimately accountable for the progress that we make in all these areas, and sometimes I just have to put my foot down, and that was. I try to do that, still with a very sock shoe on the foot, but being a little bit more direct in my feedback has been a growth opportunity.

Speaker 1: 21:31

The.

Speaker 3: 21:31

American culture is very low context, so you kind of say what you mean, what you say, but we like to soft pedal bad news. We sandwich kind of constructive feedback between good things, and when you sandwich constructive feedback between good things, sometimes they don't hear it, and so I've had to also sort of peel that open and just get a lot more direct and use more concrete examples than I normally would need to. Two or three examples usually are enough, but sometimes you've got to give multiple examples and show patterns of behavior that people need to work on. So that's been a bit of a change. I'm not going to say that my team is hard headed, but they are kind of a little bit. Sometimes it can be a little bit hard headed Elizabeth.

Speaker 1: 22:26

what specifically was difficult about becoming a little bit of a dictator? I don't think anybody wants to become a dictator, but was it like an internal thing of you don't want people not to like you or you don't? What specifically was hard about that for you? Because I think the reasons you mentioned seem very valid and this has to happen. But what was that pull or that tension inside of you of, like I don't want to do this.

Speaker 3: 22:51

I think part of it is just being a woman and the conditioning that I think we've all experienced our entire light that we're the nurturers, we're the mothers, we are about building harmony, and it's usually the men, the male, they're the heavies, the bad guys, they're the ones who just sort of say what needs to be said and they move on, and we're the ones that are sort of cleaning up the pieces after the fact and helping everybody feel good about it. So not that I needed to act more like a man, but in a way I kind of had to own all of that history of how I got to where I am and know that sometimes you just have to tell people this is what we're doing, and I'm not going to give you a 2,000 word dissertation on why.

Speaker 3: 23:45

We're going to do it because I know it's the right thing to do and I said so, which is just very counter to just our rules, social upbringing and management styles. You know it's men or assertive women are aggressive. It's sort of that old trope. And so I really was important to me being the first outside leader, because the former CTO started the company. So I had a lot to prove, not only to them but to myself, and I didn't want to screw it up. I just really didn't want to screw it up. I probably took a little bit more time than I should have.

Speaker 2: 24:22

One of the things I witnessed from you, elizabeth, is you have a great balance of the fierce and the tender, and I just wonder if you were used to being more tender, and then that's how you could be direct. But because you're also an agitator of like, let's get things moving, let's go, let's do these exciting things, but let's be linking arms with each other, and I think that's why you have great relationship with other executives. But I wonder if the invitation it wasn't to be a dictator but to be a little bit more fierce, be a little bit more direct, and maybe some of that fits, that you can still be benevolent, that you can still demonstrate compassion, that you haven't lost your tenderness but the brightness of who you are. At times it's like the only time you'll be heard is if you are what feels like a dictatorial, but you're actually just being the fierce Elizabeth that we know. What does that sound like? Does that resonate with you?

Speaker 3: 25:21

Well, that sounds a lot better than the way it sometimes feels. So I like that Just be a little bit more fierce.

Speaker 2: 25:27

Okay.

Speaker 4: 25:27

Yeah. I like that a lot On your team. That is embody the vision you have for what it means to be a collaborative leader in your space.

Speaker 3: 25:39

Oh, totally. I have seen real growth in being open to new people, new cultures and taking the time to get to know them and then actually verbalize hey, this person that I didn't think was very good. I've actually started to work with them and they're really great and I want them on my team. That took a couple of years, but it is. The most rewarding thing is when they have that aha moment and they verbalize it. They feel so safe that they can actually admit this predisposition, that I had these thoughts and feelings about working with a different culture or a different group of people or someone that isn't like me.

Speaker 3: 26:26

I was wrong. It's been terrific. And to really see that and to recognize the diversity and how much better we all get when we really act inclusive and we don't just kind of fake it, but to have them acknowledge it out loud and then for me to be able to celebrate with them, that kind of the learning, the epiphany, is really pretty rewarding. And that's just one specific example. I remember it. I will remember that for the rest of my life because I just felt like, oh, huge breakthrough, I'm so glad, I'm happy for them, it's growth.

Speaker 2: 27:04

So I have a question for you because I think this will help our listeners. It will probably help us as well. Elizabeth, what kind of advice would you give to leaders who are leading teams where sometimes the cultures collide, or maybe especially when cultures collide, what advice would you give to the leader of the team and maybe the leader on the team?

Speaker 3: 27:27

What underestimate and don't ever let out, on the fact that that conflict and the differences are there and it takes years, maybe forever, for people to really learn how to embrace people that are different. And that diversity is not skin deep, it goes all the way to the very soul of everyone. How they were raised, their grandparents influence on them, their educational system, their own values, their own sense of self-worth, what it is that makes them feel valued. There's so many different dimensions of human beings. I'll be honest, last year I went to visit my team in Mexico and I was excited it was crowded in the office. Everybody was just fighting to get a desk. They were, you know. I was like, okay, this is going to work. And then I left and I didn't go back for six months and I went back in December and everybody had left. There was nobody, there were very few people in the office, so in that short.

Speaker 3: 28:36

So we did all this work to try to educate and teach. We had special cultural training classes that were done in both languages and then together in English, and we did it and then I was like, yay, we're done. Oh no, oh no, we should have kept that going. We should have done that every quarter, you can't ever think that you're done. You've got to be talking to people, you've got to be present, you've got to show up and you've got to see it in person, because the temperature and the feeling that you get from being if you can being in person with folks, that's when you get the real story. You know, over Zoom, a lot can be hidden, and I think it's my probably the best and biggest advice is don't ever think that you're done. Keep working on those interpersonal relationships within the team.

Speaker 3: 29:29

And I think for the manager who's on the team, if you see something, say something. If something feels wrong, speak up, because nobody did that either. They spoke up when I got there, but they didn't speak up to say, hey, something's happening here, this doesn't feel right, people are leaving the office, and so we got there, and so I went back again in January and I'll be going back again in March and I had sit-downs with my people and I said I'm just going to rip the band-aid off and I'm just going to tell it like it is. This is what's happened and this is why and this is what we and I said awareness is the first step. So I'm making you aware of what has happened.

Speaker 3: 30:10

You've seen it, you've been here and I want you to understand why it happened. And I said this is on us to fix and we can fix it. But you got to be aware, you got to own it. And then we've got to change our behaviors to make everyone in our office feel welcome and like they're a part of the team and that they're valued and that they are included, even if it's just chit-chat around the coffee pot.

Speaker 4: 30:37

Yep, I'm not sure this is going to get into the podcast, but when you went, so when you took the conversation to Mexico, that is the tone of your voice and the sharpness of your perspective. That was what reminded me of our first conversation, when you first called us about the situation that you were facing, like this surprise and confusion and intensity, and didn't you know Just that side of who you are Don't ever underestimate, don't ever give up. The diversity cuts to the soul. You have to always continue to be learning. Those are those unique leadership insights that you bring that serve as mile markers for someone's progression if they choose to be in the wake of your leadership.

Speaker 4: 31:19

I think that that's part of how just how you lead is you have that sharp perspective and in the midst of when you went to Mexico in your mind, the awareness of when you could have done something differently in retrospect. That's always something that I've been attracted to you for is that ability to recognize where you need to improve. Now you're also recognizing the change of behavior in your own practice with that team. Now, with the situation in Mexico, are you also relying on individuals on the ground to help you understand what's going on with that location?

Speaker 3: 32:05

Oh yeah, absolutely. I've got site leaders and I have one from each culture and their job is to keep me and the rest of us informed of when there are rumblings, when things are amiss, and I have to do a little bit more. On my next trip back I'm gonna be spending some time with them and with some other leaders in the organization, and virtually all the people down there are part of my organization. So it's my team to really understand the psychology around. Why they didn't speak up, why they didn't pick up the phone. I mean, I have such an open door policy and I ping people all the time and interrupt their day and say, hey, I just wanted to ask about this. And I always tell people you can call me anytime. There's something you need. If something see something, say something. And I said and my other quote is if I don't know what's broke, I can't fix it. So you gotta tell me if something is breaking or broken so that we can start to come up with some solutions and some strategies. So they're all over fixing it now. I just so.

Speaker 3: 33:15

I'm so disappointed in myself that I let those six months go by because if I had gotten there sooner, we might have changed the trajectory a bit. So it's not unrecoverable, it's not ruined. But it made me so sad that all the work that we'd done to bring these folks together to do the training and then we did we just we took my foot off the gas and we started to coast, thinking that we were good, you know, the work's getting done, people are productive, but they weren't happy being co-located because we just got. You know, we just have to keep reminding, keep practicing, keep exercising those new muscles around inclusion and how you make people feel like that you want them to be there, and so, again, we're gonna start with awareness and start building the bridges back again.

Speaker 4: 34:11

Now if we were to ask you to like, zoom out just a little bit. Not everyone is going to be leading this kind of collision of cultures like two very distinct cultures, like you're facing.

Speaker 4: 34:22

However, as you're talking, there are so many smaller examples that I'm replaying in my head of the teams that we've worked with. So I wanna ask you, Elizabeth, from your perspective, are there a couple of lessons that you would say are broadly applicable for those individuals who are really facing a clash of culture within their team, Whatever that culture is? Like you said, it really is a soul-heart-mind issue when we talk about diversity. Are there a couple of lessons that you would teach us from your learnings that we could apply to how it is that we're building our teams?

Speaker 3: 34:58

I think the first one is is communicate very clear expectations about how the interpersonal aspects of your team, how you expect that to operate. So, when we acquired the company that was largely based in India this is the third leg of the cultural clash, sort of stool and it was an acquisition and there was, you know, of course, some negativity. You know who are these people, what did they do? What did they build? Are they as good as we are, Et cetera, et cetera, and some of that is normal.

Speaker 3: 35:34

I started to frame it with this is the little brother that we just adopted and he is part of our family and we need to treat him like part of the family, Reinforcing my constant expectations that you are now leading this team. This product belongs to us. It is our product and my expectation is it's not a arms-length relationship, it is fully integrated. We own and operate this product. It belongs to us. It is our responsibility to make it even better and it's our job to bring that team in and along on the journey with us. And so I think, setting those clear expectations and of not what work needs to get done, it's not what, but how, it's how you get it done and how do you create that inclusive, cohesive team that is good at communicating and collaborating and that understands and seeks to learn how to adapt to the differences? There's the great book you guys know about this the Culture Map that I love.

Speaker 3: 36:41

And understanding that they're not the two cultures. All the cultures are not wrong. They're different and you need to understand their perspectives so that you can adapt. Just like me not being offended when I got very direct feedback. That's how they communicate, that's how certain cultures communicate and it was something I had to learn and adapt to, and they have to do the same thing.

Speaker 3: 37:05

So clear expectations would be probably the biggest one, and then the other one is just don't underestimate that if you are not constantly practicing new behaviors that lead to that integrated, inclusive, collaborative team that you want, so death. That's going to be a high-performing team. Let's not lose sight of the fact that teams that work better together produce better stuff. The end game is that we have a job. We're not a charity, we're a for-profit company, so we need to make good products and we need all of our people pulling together to make that happen. So I think it's just don't ever think that your work is done. It is constant, perpetual celebrating that when people demonstrate those great behaviors of inclusivity and collaboration. Celebrate them publicly and continue to remind everyone when they don't, so that you don't they don't think you've lost sight of that, those clear expectations that you have on those areas.

Speaker 2: 38:13

Yeah, elizabeth, when you talk about the how, I know that that is really important to you, and I think buried deep within is the with whom, and so even the way that you bring people in, find ways to communicate with people individually. Just in the few months that we worked with you, we saw people flourish under your leadership and among your leadership, and we just wanna encourage you to take your own advice and continue to be the fierce leader that we know. We're just so appreciative of you being here.

Speaker 1: 38:51

I think to end, maybe this will be our last question. Earlier you said sometimes you feel like a kindergarten teacher and I have a kindergartner and I think sometimes in leadership there's like just reminding people of all the simple stuff that they learned in kindergarten and so I wonder if you have any final thought on like sometimes leadership isn't necessarily this big mass of ah-has or these earth shattering revelations. It's more about like helping people to remind them of some of the lessons they learned in kindergarten, about kindness and communication and whatever else, as they're now adults all trying to do their own thing and be the best. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 39:27

Yeah, I think it's just important to realize that human beings are really just big children sometimes and we do have to remind each other to be kind, to be nice to each other, to assume good and we package it as assume good intentions, but really what that means is just be nice, and if you have a disagreement and you need to take it out on the playground sometimes, you just need to.

Speaker 3: 39:54

You need to sit down and hash things out and be honest and listen to feedback and give feedback and also then to apologize or to acknowledge that people feel certain things in certain ways. And again, sort of leading with empathy is a way for you to create better connections, deeper connections with people that forge better relationships. And I've seen some folks on my team start out with really kind of bad attitudes about working with certain folks and then, once they really dig in and spend time getting to know them well, now they're best friends and it goes both ways. You may not have liked working with someone, but you get to know them and then you realize, oh wow, they really are smart, they really have a lot to offer. So I think it's giving each other some grace and some time and making the investment in getting to know each other is what makes those relationships worthwhile, and it makes the whole team operate at a much higher level.

Speaker 1: 40:55

I love it. Elizabeth, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom, and I appreciate that we finally were able to make this happen after having to reschedule a couple different times. So thank you.

Speaker 3: 41:05

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1: 41:10

Thank you so much to Elizabeth for being willing to come on our podcast and chat about her experience.

Speaker 1: 41:16

As she mentioned, this work is ongoing and she had a lot more great stories that maybe we'll get into in a future podcast, but we really hope that this episode helps you not only think about elements of cultural diversity and how are you bringing people together and fostering collaboration and getting everyone on the same page so that you can really move the mission forward, but also, as Elizabeth did, a little bit, that you can also kind of reflect on your own leadership and maybe some of the things that scare you or maybe the things that you have to lean into, that you have been resisting, whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 41:51

But we hope that this podcast episode has given you something to think about and we would love to invite you to share those thoughts and reflections with us. You can send us an email, connect at leadershipvisionconsultingcom or visit us on our website, leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Go over to the blog and find this episode, share some comments. You can also find us on all the social media channels and we would just love to hear from you, hear your insights on this episode or any of our other resources. We have a plethora of them out there. Thank you so much for listening to the Leadership Vision podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. I'm Nathan Freeberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.