The Leadership Vision Podcast

Building Unshakeable Confidence and Momentum with Paul Epstein

• Nathan Freeburg • Season 7 • Episode 31

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In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we welcome Paul Epstein, a keynote speaker, author of the new book Better Decisions Faster, and consultant. He shares his transformative journey from a sports executive in the NBA and NFL to a leadership speaker driven by authenticity and impact. Paul discusses powerful, actionable steps to build unshakeable confidence and maintain momentum, using values as a guiding principle. Highlights include his life-changing retreat experience, the concept of a 'Monday win,' and effective strategies for fostering positive team cultures. The episode emphasizes aligning with core values and consistently taking actionable steps to create a fulfilling and impactful life. Enjoy!

02:27 Meet the Leadership Vision Team
07:34 Paul's Journey and Impact of Keynote Speaking
09:00 The Life-Changing Retreat Experience
22:01 The Lifeline Exercise and Personal Transformation
30:46 The Life-Changing Conversation
31:07 Deep Dive into Passions
31:51 The Impact of a Coach
32:55 Chasing Impact and Leaving a Legacy
38:17 The Power of Momentum
39:42 Building Unshakable Confidence
46:22 The Clippers Constitution
51:28 Daily Scorecards for Success

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The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.

Speaker 1:

But what I've realized is when we surround ourselves with like-minded and like-hearted people that find wins in the small things and if this wasn't your Monday, maybe you're brushing some, maybe something horrible happened over the weekend and you're not in a position to focus on self-growth on Monday. I get it. I get it, me too. So then I'll see you next Monday. You know, and that's the beautiful, as long as we're winning more than we're losing, it's the compounding effect.

Speaker 2:

And that's how we can continue the journey together show, helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. Check the show notes or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom to learn more. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and in today's episode we welcome Paul Epstein, a keynote speaker, author and consultant who shifted from a successful career as a sports executive in the NBA and NFL to pursuing his true calling of impactful leadership. Paul shares transformative experiences, like a life-changing retreat, and insights from influential voices in his life that led him to redefine success through authenticity and intentionality. Pay attention today here to Paul's actionable steps on building unshakable confidence and create a momentum in your life, and how these principles helped him and his teams thrive, and how they can help you and your team thrive as well. You can learn more about Paul and his new book Better Decisions Faster and his Win Monday online community via the link in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

Now to begin this episode, I left it well, a lot of it uncut at the beginning. Normally, you know we take out the formalities and some of the introductions and whatnot, but I wanted to pull the curtain back just a little bit about how we conduct these conversations. But also I just think it was really great here. It was a really fun introduction. Brian and Linda are doing a good job to explain who we are at Leadership Vision. And then I think it tied in nicely with who Paul is and kind of his journey and story as well. So here it is our high energy conversation with Paul Epstein. Enjoy.

Speaker 2:

Well, welcome to the Leadership Vision Podcast. As you can tell, we got shot out of a cannon. We're just going to town here. We're going to start with some introductions. I'm going to have Brian and Linda go first and then I'll go, because we realized we know a lot about you based on all of our prep and you may not know that much about who we are. So, brian, linda, why don't you take it away? And then we've got like 18 pages of notes here.

Speaker 2:

We'll see how much of it we get to.

Speaker 3:

Well, paul, we're a leadership advisory consulting firm and Brian was at the right place at the right time when Gallup released the Clifton StrengthsFinder back in 1998. Yep, and so he founded the company in 2000. And we have worked with individuals, teams all over the world. We use the language of strengths, but especially in COVID. All that work kind of laid a foundation. But what people and teams were asking for is how do we invest into positive and healthy team cultures to help people be more mentally engaged, emotionally healthy and positive, just meaning, not just smiley all the time. But I'm willing to link arms with you and do hard things.

Speaker 3:

Brian and I are happily married to each other which is a wonderful thing, and right now I am the president and we have many different endeavors, and so you come into a conversation where we are really seeking to hear what's brilliant and special and unique about the leaders that we are encountering. So we're so glad that you have joined the podcast, so I just wanted to welcome you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, Linda. Yeah, great, great background. I'm going to keep listening and get back to my coffee here, but cheers.

Speaker 4:

It's going to be a fantastic conversation.

Speaker 4:

Well, my name is Brian and, like Linda said, I'm the founder, accidental business owner. I did not intend to do this, but my whole relationship with Gallup got me speaking in front of people and getting paid, so that was how the company started, and so doing that for the last 25 years. My passion with this work is whatever we can do to help individuals better understand themselves and then how they navigate the world. That's how I want to show up to the work that we do. We like to push people and how they engage with their work, how they're performing their relationship, relationships with other people to other people, and so I'm curious in our conversation today, not only to talk to someone who knows how to podcast but somebody who I'm really curious about your story, your leadership story, how you came into the voice that is now being heard in the world.

Speaker 4:

So we'll get to that side, hopefully as well. I think that's a little bit about who I am A little bit about you.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I'm Nathan. I'm the technical brains behind the operation here. As Linda said, I've been with Leadership Vision for 17 years and I'm in Portland, oregon, moved out here about 10 years ago, which is when we, shortly after that, started the podcast and our website kind of really took off because all of a sudden I had more time on my hands. I have four kids at home, hence the more time on my hands. My wife has a big fancy job. I've spent time in working for a software company. I spent 10 years in higher ed and I just love the process of learning from people. And then, perhaps more importantly, how did you take that information and then push it out to communities and to teams and groups so that everyone can kind of learn from the collective wisdom of that person? Which brings me to sort of this dilemma. I'm having interviewing you today because, as I was prepping for this, I realized there's Nathan's dilemma.

Speaker 2:

This is my dilemma. I have so many directions I want to talk to you about how do you work for the Clippers when they suck.

Speaker 1:

How do you work for the 49ers? We sucked really bad. By the way, it wasn't just suck Epic, it was like historic suck. It was like they were trying to suck. Oh my.

Speaker 2:

How do you, we should do that?

Speaker 1:

That to give it back to you. Okay, totally talk about the clippers, because it's my happy, toxic, fun place, like it's great, it's right, is there so much? How do you? And then the other side, how do you?

Speaker 2:

you know, work for the niners with all the colin kaepernick stuff yeah the, the super bowl stuff, the, the book, the I I heard this in in one of your podcasts the whole, like your um, I think you called it your constitution or something.

Speaker 1:

The work ethic, positivity, coachability, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So there's so many ways to take this, but I think what we were talking right before you hopped on is like what we would just love to do is get to know. You get to know, kind of what is behind all of these, all of these things. So I think, by way of introduction I know, brian and linda, if you want to like, uh, make it even more specific on how we want paul to introduce himself, um, but I'm just, I'm just excited to chat with you what are you hearing there, paul?

Speaker 4:

because we do want you to formally introduce yourself, because we'll weave that into the recording somehow, um, but we really do want to take this zoom backed approach and kind of like, just see how it is, we can hone in on maybe some of the messages that you may want to convey and how that might, you know, inspire us in that kind of question, that that, that we can ask.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, I think, in the spirit, of this is the beauty of being a speaker. So, primarily, while, yes, a podcaster, yes, a consultant, yes, all the stuff that folks can go to my website and connect all the dots but keynote speaking is my not only pride and joy, it's a calling, and I feel called to it because of the impact, and I would define impact as making a difference and leaving people in places better than we found them. In today's conversation, we should totally unpack why impact is so important to me, because it's based on the worst day of my life when I lost my hero. So let's definitely come back to that, because impact did not land on my lap by accident. It was a very, very. What started with a tragedy turned into an intentional purpose and pull and tug, and now it's a calling, and so we'll come back to that. But the reason I bring all of that up is there's so much that you can read in a bio, there's so much that you can see in a sexy LinkedIn profile, and it all matters. But I think there's an undercurrent of where you come from and who you are and what you stand for, and I heard it even as you were all introducing yourself. I wrote down some notes here about helping people better understand themselves and about the true authenticity of leadership, and all leadership starts with self with self.

Speaker 1:

And if it wasn't for a life-changing retreat that was focused on self-discovery and understanding who I am from the inside out you're still talking to a sports executive. I'm not sure I'm on this show because I still would have had the 365 day job. I'm not blazing trails and writing bestselling books and doing the keynote. I'm not doing any of that. I'm an executive that is in the sports industry, which was a kid in a candy store chapter. But the reason that I took the Jerry Maguire leap is because I found myself. People always ask me, why'd you leave sports? And I say I didn't leave sports, I found myself, and it was a very intentional Monday. Speaking of winning Monday, the first Monday that I ever intentionally won was the Monday after this retreat.

Speaker 1:

My life doesn't change without the decisions I make and the actions I take. The following Monday morning, when I'm on a stage, I literally say the ROI of today's conversation. I will say this on this podcast for everyone listening and watching right now. If you do nothing with what we talk about. It's just a cool talk, it's a cool experience and I'm glad you joined. But if you're intentional about making different, new, better decisions, taking new, better and different actions, because of one thing or several, but at least one thing that you take from this conversation, your life can be changed. And my life is proof of that, because I felt this instant obsession, this instant fascination at this retreat with well, this is different because I was trained till I was blue in the face about how to sell widgets. I was trained, maybe not always as effectively as I would have liked, but I did receive a manual for how to manage people, and you know don't get me started on that Eventually.

Speaker 1:

That's why I wrote my first book, the Power of Playing Offense. It was the book that I needed when I got promoted from a player to a coach, meaning from an individual contributor to a manager and where I want to go with this is when you start to figure out who you are from the inside out the level of authenticity, the level of ownership, the lack of a victim mentality, the ability to know that, whether you won or lost today, tomorrow is a fresh day and a new day, and it starts with that person in the mirror and how in control, and it very perceived I'll use that word perceived uncontrollable world, uncontrollable environment. I feel massively in control, massively. I'm not in control of the economy. I get that. I'm not in control of whether there's another pandemic have nothing to do with that. I'm not in control of whether somebody yells at me in five minutes. I'm just not. But I still feel in control of my life because I'm dialed in from the inside out and so there's no storm that's going to derail me. It just might be a bad day or a bad week or a bad month, but it's not a bad life, and so that's really what I took away on a brochure.

Speaker 1:

Whoever sold that retreat experience to the San Francisco 49ers. That eventually changed my life. It said find your why, unearth your core values. And that sounds great and I did do that. But so many people go through those exercises and nothing long-term changes or transforms.

Speaker 1:

And so what I'm here to say is that whole journey of the Clippers and the Niners and why did you take a Jerry Maguire leap? I would have done none of that if I didn't figure out who I was on the inside. So I'll kick it back to you and we could totally riff on anything, but just know this like I get back to the Niners front office the Monday after the retreat and I got on my imaginary soapbox preaching about what I just went through and literally one by one, people on my team said I want that. And then the water cooler buzz started, and then some of the football coaches and some of the players, and then HR approaches me and says what do you think of coaching the Y to our onboarding employees? And that's how it became known as the Y coach at the San Francisco 49ers. And I say it's the greatest graduation of my life, from career to calling. But it was because of how I showed up differently that following Monday.

Speaker 4:

So, Paul, before you went to the retreat, did you have this internal sense or this internal agitation that something needed to be corrected? That there was something else you were looking for.

Speaker 1:

It's a great question, Brian. The honest answer is no, but coming out of the retreat is when I felt exactly what you just said. I don't think you can feel massive how. How about this? I think you can feel tension, but you have no idea why, Right?

Speaker 1:

So, yeah sure, in reflection, 90 days before this retreat, six months before, a year before, did I have a happiness gap? Did I have a fulfillment gap? I guess I wasn't aware of it, but once I got on the other side of the retreat, I knew that I could no longer go back to the old way. So the tension and the gap of oh, paul, you're showing up as two different people. There's a work you and then there's a life you and the reality is, if you have two of you, you have none of you. And so that's how I realized the tension. The tension came from now that I understood myself, the gap of how I was showing up to who I now knew I was and am and can become. That gap created the tension post-retreat.

Speaker 4:

Well, there are many people that go through life and they may have those moments where they have that retreat experience or they have some change or, like you said, there's moments of suffering and it changes and alters the course of their life. Like you said, they are not quite sure that anything was going wrong before that or that there's any need for a change. But when you look back at at that pre-retreat, was there some theme, um, that was like redundant, it was too normal, it got too familiar.

Speaker 1:

It was too cookie cutter. Okay, I was climbing a corporate ladder and I never felt stimulated, I never felt challenged. I don't mean this in an ego way, I say this with full humility. But we were winning, we were successful, we were kicking you know what On the business spreadsheet. Nothing was broken, we had nothing to fix. We were breaking all time industry records. Everyone is reaping on one another's success and growing our careers and title, money and responsibilities. Check, check and check. It's really hard to change when you're winning.

Speaker 1:

It's really hard to change when the world says bravo and it felt pretty good. In moments it feels cool to walk into a restaurant or a bar or a wherever with the right business card and the red carpet is rolled out in front of you. I'm not gonna lie in the moment that feels pretty awesome. But then there's the other 300 plus days that you actually have to go into an office and do the thing. So I remember when I was recruiting I used to work a lot of career fairs back in the day and as students or young professionals would come up to me they would sell themselves in their elevator pitch by telling me how big of a sports fan they were.

Speaker 1:

And I said it with a smile on my face. I said I don't care. I don't care because as soon as you were a person 50 in this line I knew that about you and you probably have a story, which is an awesome story, of how you threw the ball in the backyard when you're five. And I get it and I have two young kids now. So I feel like an a-hole for even saying this, but I'm saying I love that, you love sports. That doesn't mean you're going to do great at this job and I'm here to hire the best salesperson, the best marketer, the best accountant, the best whatever, and for you to do great and be excellent at that. The shine of the sexy book cover of this industry will eventually not be as shiny. You will pass this honeymoon period which, by the way, cool industry, most jobs, that suck. The honeymoon period is like days, weeks, months. The sports industry it can suck in. The honeymoon period was years for most people, but then eventually they're like I hate accounting and I'm an accountant.

Speaker 1:

What the hell Just because I get to go to 40 cool games a year it doesn't make up for the other 325. And so that's kind of where I realized oh, I fell out of love with the day job and I'm happy to unpack a story of a conversation with a coach that I had. That made me realize it. It's a really fascinating story. But when I realized that I fell out of love with the day-to-day experience and I just really enjoyed the industry at a macro level, that was part of the tension as well.

Speaker 4:

Okay. So, paul, I want to ask a question with sequencing. I want to talk about the weekend event Now. You just mentioned someone else as an influential voice which came first.

Speaker 1:

Then I have a third part the retreat, the influential event.

Speaker 4:

Okay. So there was a retreat. Then you had a influential voice prior to the retreat. This may be another question. Prior to the retreat, I'm assuming that you had somewhat of a community of people that you were working with that provided not only a sense of isolation from what was happening outside of that, but also could have contributed to a bias that you were doing okay and didn't really yeah, here's the thing, brian and and everyone listening into.

Speaker 1:

when you work in a place like sports or even entertainment, there's a reason why you see so many culture stories for the wrong reasons in the news, when I can say, if you don't want to do this, there's a line of a thousand people that would do it. That's not great culture. That's leading with a stick, that's leading through fear. It's pretending that you're motivating somebody by how replaceable they are. And so, yes, I think and look, I'm not criticizing my former bosses or peer leaders. On my worst day, I did it too.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yep, I did it.

Speaker 1:

I was not aware of the negative impact it was having on other people, otherwise I never would have done it. But now, reflecting back, I always say on my best day, people would follow me to the end of the earth, and back, on my worst day, I wouldn't follow myself. Okay, and.

Speaker 1:

I'm still, paul. And so for me, what it was in that isolated area, like you said, brian, I think we all convinced ourselves that where else would we go? Why else would we do anything? And I feel like we all suffered. Many of us suffered from that sunk cost bias. So for me, I ended up, at the end of my journey, spending about 15 years in the industry.

Speaker 1:

Well, one school of thought is if I leave in my 14th, 15th year, I wasted 14 or 15 years. That's one school of thought. The other school of thought is hey, just like a fun dating analogy, every day you're with the wrong person, you're not with the right person. Right, you got to date, a lot of crazy to find the one, and then eventually you'll find the one, but you had to have a bunch of bad dates to get there. And so the whole point is if you're not with the right person, stop lying to yourself. If you're not in the right job or the right industry, stop lying to yourself, stop and stop. And I think for a lot of us we fell into that trap and until I had the confidence, clarity and courage and conviction to say I didn't waste those 15 years, they actually have prepared me for the next chapter in the next season of life. But I'm telling you, if it wasn't for those insights of the retreat, I might not have had the you know what to make that decision.

Speaker 3:

I might not have had the you-know-what to make that decision Now was there something unique about the retreat that it seems like it captured your heart, or it just shook you awake? Yes, Did it allow you to be in touch with your humanity, your deeper desires, your points of suffering in your life, your, um points of suffering in your life? I mean, we all know that there's a point where suffering and flourishing intersect, and that's really where life or or greater transcendence can lie. And so I'm I'm guessing it wasn't just like a uh, pep rally.

Speaker 1:

Um, but there was, there was something that a lot of Kleenex, kleenex ready, so talk to us a little bit. A lot of Kleenex Get the Kleenex ready.

Speaker 3:

So talk to us a little bit about your experience, because to be able to wake up from just the day in, day out of like, well, I'm just getting used to this. This is just what we all do, and there's something about maybe our listeners, I think, would want to know how did you wake up? What was some of the sequence, just even in that weekend?

Speaker 1:

not just I was this way and then I was that way. Great question, love sharing this. There was an exercise which I'm about to share with everyone because anybody could do this as long as you have one other human being. It takes a minimum of two people to do this, and maybe you've talked about this in the podcast before the lifeline exercise. So I will explain what it is and then I'll explain why it had such a deep impact on me and then, eventually, why it leads to these massive decisions and actions.

Speaker 1:

So the lifeline exercise, this if you're listening or watching and you're tuning in right now, if you took out a blank sheet of paper and you drew a horizontal line with a dot on each side. So on the left side of the paper you draw a dot, right in the center, and on the right side of the paper you draw a dot and you do a horizontal line that connects the two dots. That's your life. The left dot is when you were born, the right dot is today. It's present day. Above the line, you would, with a partner, write down the peaks, all the great stuff, all the phenomenal stuff. I met the one. I became an executive, my first child. I got accepted to the school of my dreams.

Speaker 1:

All the phenomenal stuff, all of that and then below the line is the opposite. There might be some trauma, there might be some tragedy, there might be some crisis. There is small T, capital T, like all that. And the worst day of my life that I alluded to before happened when I was 19 years old. I'm a freshman at USC and I got the phone call that nobody alluded to before happened when I was 19 years old. I'm a freshman at USC and I got the phone call that nobody wants to get and it was you need to come home. And as an only child, getting that call about my dad, it changed me forever Boy to man, my mom went from parent to partner and it's a day that I wouldn't wish on anybody. But I'm not speaking this way and I'm not who I am if it wasn't for that worst day of my life and as unpacking my dad's story as a part of that retreat and crying relentlessly and not just sharing it and not just the emotions that came with it, but doing it with work, people.

Speaker 1:

It was kind of weird at first because, especially in sports, we're not vulnerable. We are not vulnerable Okay, not I have, I could go to an industry agnostic work environment and there's more vulnerability. Sports is the opposite. It's just bravado and strength and power and influence, and even on the business side it's very much like that.

Speaker 1:

So to be unleashing these emotions through such a radical, authentic, heart-based experience and telling the story about my lost hero and oh, he was a continuation school teacher and his former students, who felt like they had been given up on, told me your dad gave me a reason to think that tomorrow is worth it. And to hear that and to share that with a coworker, I was like that's what leadership really is, that's what impact really is. So when I told you earlier, impact is my strongest core value and this is why he may have chosen a classroom, I then chose a boardroom, now I choose a stage, but the impact is all the same and every day, my measurement of success has nothing to do with revenue or profitability or anything, yes or no. At the end of the day, did I make my hero proud? That's it. That's it. Hey Paul, was it a great interview? Hey Paul, was it a great podcast? If my dad is proud of the way I showed up for these 60 minutes, the answer is hell yes.

Speaker 3:

What was your dad's first name? Larry, larry, yeah. And even when you talk about him right now because I'm sure you've told the story before, because it's one that we can all think about the times where we've had either a diagnosis or a loss, or that dreaded phone call that you were naming but it seems like you almost have a twinkle in your eye when you talk about him and the memory of him. So when you retell the story now, what bubbles up as some of the memory of who he is?

Speaker 1:

Part of why I love what I do so much right now is it's reconnected me with my dad. You don't talk about the bad stuff or the hard stuff or the emotional stuff in work, in corporate, in sports. You don't do it. At least that's how I spent my career for over a decade. So this retreat where I was able to talk about my hero and yes, I cried, but it wasn't a bad cry, it was it was an I miss him. Cry leading to I'm inspired by him. Cry leading to oh my gosh, what if he inspired my future? And what if I started to do things to make him proud? Like I went through all of that and I just thought how interesting that it very intentional one or two day experience could pull that out of me. Without a retreat, I probably never go through that and and so then I go back to work and it all got vanilla again and there were no good tears or no bad tears. It was just what felt like superficial high fives and you know, like it was just that and I was like I can't live this way. Yeah, I can't. I didn't know what I would eventually go on to do. I didn't know I would be a speaker and author. I didn't know that, but I just knew that I had to become one version of me, because the work version of Paul in sports was not how I was showing up with my best friends or with my wife, or it wasn't. And when I realized that gap, I had to make a commitment. One of my core values is authenticity and I said, well, if you're really going to be authentic, then you need to shed that skin. Yeah, because you can't have two forms of skin here, paul, like you got one, and so that was my process and I'm happy to Brian. You said you wanted to go in order. You know one of the things that I'll be very prescriptive with this feedback for everyone, listening and watching values like what I discovered about myself, which my five, in no particular order, are growth, belief, authenticity, impact and courage. Those are my five. I learned that about myself back.

Speaker 1:

It was fall of 2016 when I went through that retreat, but it was the process that followed that ended up changing my life, because I told myself prove it, show me if you're really a person of these values, take a big swing of the bat, make a decision, take an action, and one of those decisions. It was tied to growth. I said let's define each value. This was me in an isolated room putting pen to paper my personal. I don't care what Webster says, I don't need a dictionary. My definition of growth is the mindset that I will attack each day with. That's my definition.

Speaker 1:

And then when I said, all right, paul, prove it. How, how are you going to show yourself that you are a person that will obsess with growth for the rest of your life, because it's a core value, it's who you are? And I said, all right, paul, do something that you said you would never do. Do something that you said you would never do. That would prove that your growth Well.

Speaker 1:

So I wrote a handful of things down on a list. On that list was go back to school, because in sports I didn't need an MBA. I never hit a ceiling. You could become a president, ceo, without those three letters. Other industries are very different. Sports, he didn't need it. So I asked myself what's the point? What's the point? Why do I need to go back to school? But that's a fixed mindset. The growth mindset doesn't ask what's the point. You ask what if? From what's the point to what if? So it's about possibilities and opportunities. And for me to scratch that itch, I said I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to show that I'm a person of growth. I'm not doing it because I want to grow in sports, I'm doing it to prove to myself it was $150,000 investment to prove to myself that I am a person of growth. Yeah, literally.

Speaker 3:

There you go.

Speaker 1:

Literally so a month in. That's how I ended up in Michigan the executive MBA. A month into the program I had a relationship that I had never experienced in my entire life to date. My relationship was with my coach. Up until that point in my life and career I never had a coach, never.

Speaker 4:

They were not provided to me.

Speaker 1:

I was not even aware that something like an executive coach or even a life coach exists. Never knew, never. They were not provided to me. I was not even aware that something like an executive coach or even a life coach exists. Never knew, never was aware. And so Sue Ann is her name. The program, university of Michigan, provides each student with a coach. Wow, and she was mine. And she changed my life in one conversation. And here's what happened in that conversation. And then it eventually will tie to the leap.

Speaker 1:

She says, paul, I know what you do, what do you love about it, what do you hate about it and what do you tolerate? So love, hate, tolerate. Great questions for all of us to ask ourselves about anything a person, a place, love, hate, tolerate. Answer it. And I answered all three. And then she said go deeper on the love bucket. I said well, sue Ann, I love being a leader, I love the culture side of the business I love, I love being a coach, just like you. And she said awesome, on a good day, what percentage of your time do you do that? And that's when I started to slouch down in my chair, knowing I would hate the answer. My ego puffed it up. I told her 20%. The truth is probably five to 10%. I said, sue Ann, 20%. And she said okay, if I wave a wand and you become your boss tomorrow, does that 20% go up, down or sideways? And I thought about my boss they're almost all strategy, no people so, and I think it'd go down.

Speaker 1:

And this was the question that changed everything for me. She then said so what are you after? What are you after? It's such a simple question, but it can have such profound meaning because I stopped asking myself that question almost instantly, as soon as I got into sports. I never questioned why I was climbing the ladder, I never questioned if it's leaning against the right wall, and she woke me up. And so that.

Speaker 1:

So growth, the value, making the decision and taking the action to go back to school, introduces me to this life-changing coach named Sue Ann. And then I said well, if that was what one value did for me, let's move on to the next value. And that's where the value of impact came in, and I thought about my dad and my lost hero. And very short and simple here, I literally looked at the sports industry as if it was packaged inside of two walls. I asked myself, paul, can you create more impact inside of the walls of the industry or beyond? And that is what, eventually, nine months later, mentally, I made the decision that day. Physically, it took me nine months to put the whole puzzle together, but that's why I left. I left to chase impact and I left because leaving would have been leaving impact on the table and I refused to not live a life of impact because I lost hero.

Speaker 3:

Wow, when you think about Sue Ann because I'm curious about that piece, because I think we can read all the steps and the adages and the okay, I can think about what I love and hate and tolerate. But what was it about her? That? Because it seems like there was either something compassionate or present that allowed you to really think intellectually about it and emotionally about the answers. Intellectually about it and emotionally about the answers that sometimes, when there's a person that can give you that kind of holding space to answer the question or wrestle with the questions that you come to the good quote coaches just help you uncover what's already there. So so what was it about Sue Ann, with you Describe that.

Speaker 1:

Love it, and I'm going to start by sharing the same reason she had a massive impact in my life is how I feel about me as a speaker. Here's what I mean by that. I believe that we're all one speech away from our life changing. And some people say, well, no, but I've been to 20 conferences. Fine, one of two things happens Either it wasn't the right day or the right message, or you weren't ready to hear. Or you weren't ready to hear or you weren't ready to act on it. But I promise you that if the speaker is worth like, if they do it for the right reasons, if they're there to help you and improve you and make you better, and you're ready to hear it, you're ready to decide, you're ready to act on it, your life can change. So, my point being, being a speaker, I'm going to meet you at the 50. I'm going to show up knowing that there's a life that I can change every stage I get on, but I am only 50 yards of the equation. You got to meet me at the 50. Otherwise, nothing different is going to happen in your life. I don't care how great I am, and I would say the same thing about Sue Ann I was ready to meet her at the 50. So, yes, she's a phenomenal coach. Yes, to this day, I love her. We are still friends. I adore her. She is one of the kindest, warmest, most compassionate, caring, authentic spirits I've ever been around. But that's not 100% of the equation. She met me at the 50.

Speaker 1:

Where my 50 came from is I was ready to hear it, I was ready to act on it and I was ready to hear it. I was ready to act on it and I was ready to take swings of the bat. But she had to open me up. And here's where the opening came from. If you're listening to this, if somebody at work or in any scope of life asks you how are you doing, how are things going For me, my default answer was good, good, good, good. It didn't matter if they were good, I was just like good, good, good. I could just hit play like good, good, you know, and and so, like in sports, I never had a coach on the business side, but I had mentors. The problem with my mentors were they knew my boss better than they knew me, so I was never going to fully open up. They're like Paul, how's it going? Good, good, good, so I never went there With Sue Ann. I finally had a safe space.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So what I was unpacking on her was I was willing to go there Things I would have never told a air quotes mentor in sports, because I wasn't safe. I didn't feel safe, so I never went there, a hundred percent. I told them 60% of the truth, 70% of the truth, and I just left the rest of it out. I didn't lie, I just chose to tell them what's good. And hey, paul, what do you need help in? And I would say something process oriented nothing, people oriented, nothing to do with my boss, cause I'm like, ah, like I, I'm not going to go there with her. There were no handcuffs, we just talked and I felt safe. So that was my contribution of 50, but yes, she's also a phenomenal coach. And that was the other 50.

Speaker 4:

When you were in that moment with her and you realized that the change needed to be made, were you also facing the consequence of what would happen if you didn't need to be made? Were you also facing the consequence of what would?

Speaker 3:

happen if you didn't. Ooh.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, good question. If I didn't take the leap from sports, you didn't meet her at the 50. Yeah, oh, if.

Speaker 4:

I didn't meet her at the 50 in that conversation.

Speaker 1:

The consequence of not moving. I had so much momentum keyword there, momentum coming off of the retreat and the self-discovery that by the time I talked to her, these decisions were made with clarity and confidence and conviction and they look like courage to the outside world. I don't consider leaving sports or becoming an entrepreneur or any other big decision I've ever made. None of it. Had courage, I would say. I got clear first and then it built my confidence and then it showed up with conviction and so not to diminish my conversation with Sue Ann but I was ready. I was ready had I not gone to the retreat and if somebody would have forced me to go to an executive MBA program and then I sat down with a coach a month in, I'm not sure that my life changes. I don't believe that any of these things are not connected to each other. I believe that when I talk about win Monday, I literally my program is called Monday Momentum. My philosophy is when you win Monday, you have momentum to win the week, and when I talk about momentum, it's for the same reason. It's just like a sports team, whether you're a sports fan or not, even if you casually watch a game and you hear they call it the Big M or Captain Mo. They're referring to momentum.

Speaker 1:

I know when my team is up by three touchdowns in the third quarter but we've given two up in a row. I am worried like hell. We're going to lose the game because the other team captured big Mo. And I think the same thing is possible for our lives and our work and our careers and our health and our relationships. You just got to get some wins. They don't need to be big wins, because one win connected to another connected to another. Now you have momentum. Big wins because one win connected to another connected to another. Now you have momentum.

Speaker 2:

So by the time I reached Joanne, I had momentum and I was willing to make the decisions and take the actions. So how do you get momentum? Because we talked to a lot of leaders where it just feels like it's, you know, one step forward, two steps back and it just they can't build up the wins, are they looking for it in the wrong places? Or how would you encourage someone to find momentum, like, how do you get that? It's? You know, that's the biggest question, biggest hurdle.

Speaker 1:

When I talk to momentum which I do all the time from stage I connect it to another word because I think they're inseparable. In order to step in and fully activate and sustain your momentum, confidence has to become your currency confidence. When I talk about confidence, if you were to go to my website, you'll see confidence all over the place, because I fundamentally believe that's like our fuel and oxygen when done right. I don't mean ego. My favorite people in the world. They show up at the intersection of confidence and humility. Those are my favorite people in the world confidence and humility. So I don't just want to preach about confidence. I actually want to share a process and a formula. When I'm on stage and I talk about how do you build and sustain unshakable confidence, how can confidence become your currency and, over time, your competitive advantage? Here's a formula Confidence equals values times action. I'll repeat that Confidence equals values times action. Implement the process that I'm about to share. Then you realize that you're much more in control of the game that you're playing and you don't get as frustrated or you don't feel a loss of hope or belief or positivity or optimism. I'm never like you said, hey, but there's some leaders that don't feel they have momentum, it's because they're too externally focused. They think, oh, it's a rough economy out there, it's tougher to sell widgets. Oh, but you know, I got a toxic employee. My culture is screwed up. It's like dude. Dude, that's external, like you got to make sure you're getting an A plus on the inside, because then it will help you weather the storms that inevitably are going to happen around you. So here's the process on how you build and sustain unshakable confidence. Confidence equals values, times, action. The good news is what I'm about to share only takes two minutes and you only have to do it once a week. So I don't care how busy we are, we all have two minutes a week.

Speaker 1:

Here it is. It's a journal and you will journal after you select a core value. If you don't know your values, cool, go to Google list of common core values. I promise you, if you look at a list of 50 or 100 words, there will be at least one that just jumps off the page. I promise you, if you look at a list of 50 or 100 words, there will be at least one that just jumps off the page. I promise you it will not fail. So choose a value. Great, now you know one.

Speaker 1:

The journal says I will live my value of blank by blank. Better yet, let me add context to it. For the week ahead, I will live my value of blank by blank. The first blank is the value that you just chose. The second is an action that you connect to the value. Now, as a reminder, confidence equals values, times action. This one sentence is how you put it on paper. You're writing down a value, you're committing to one action. So let's play with a couple of hypothetical examples, and I do this all the time. This is I've done this with Navy SEALs, olympians, shark Tank entrepreneurs Like this is how I train confidence. This is how I do it, this one sentence. So let's say that you chose a value like joy. Cool, your journal could look something like for the week ahead I will live my value of joy by cooking my favorite meal Awesome.

Speaker 1:

Simple small, accessible, Like for me. I'm throwing bacon in a pan. What are you doing? Whatever brings you joy, you do you, Okay. So if that's joy, now let's up the ante a little bit. Let's get off of joy. And maybe you chose a core value like courage. Let's talk about courage. If you were journaling a value of courage, it could look like for the week ahead. I will live my value of courage by having that challenging conversation that I've been putting off. You're not having that conversation because Paul said you would have the conversation, because courage is a core value. And here's the last thing I'll share about the process as amazing as it is and as much as I would bet my life that it works, if you only do it once or twice, I promise you no permanent change and no transformation. I'm sorry. The reason is it never got to the point of habit formation.

Speaker 1:

If you're not going to make it stick as a habit, then you're wasting your time. Do not even do it once. You would be wasting your time. The good news is there's enough literature and research and science-backed stuff that tells us how habits form and when they form. There's amazing books on it. You can find it, and what the research will tell us is in a three to four week time period where you have a consistent practice process or system, habits form. So for me, what that means as a coach is let's get past that threshold into habit zone, into habit formation. So do it for four weeks.

Speaker 1:

Journal the same value for four consecutive weeks, because now you create a habit loop internally. The way it works with my journal is value, decision, action, value, decision, action, value, decision. That's the habit loop and you're proving to yourself I am a person of growth, I am a person of joy, I am a person of courage and you're making decisions and you're taking actions and every time you're clear, your confidence grows, your conviction grows. That's the process that I went through to change my life post-retreat, and when I coach the process to others, I say finding your values. You're 10% of the way there. The next 90% is now we got to do a 365. And that's the process down, how we build momentum to not only win our own game, but we start winning the outside game more, because now we're dialed from the inside out what I like about this and I don't know if you're familiar with, like stoicism or stoic philosophy at all yeah, yeah, like like ryan holiday, like yeah, his stuff, like I'm

Speaker 1:

obsessed man obsessed totally I'm gonna give him a bear hug if I ever see him. Awesome, he's good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what I like about this is it's the idea of control what you can control. We can only control our own thoughts and actions. We can't control the outside world. So even the simple practice of I will live my value of joy by cooking bacon for me it would be on the Blackstone, but that's a whole separate conversation.

Speaker 2:

We can have All good it puts into perspective is like I'm going to take control of this momentum, I'm going to do things that are within my control and, like you said, you can't control the weather, you can't control the stock market, whatever. And I think, or maybe my question is do you think often the trap that leaders get into is that they start putting too much value on all of these things they cannot control and then they get disappointed, they get deflated, that they start putting too much value on all of these things they cannot control and then they get disappointed, they get deflated, they lose momentum because that thing that they couldn't control anyway is out of their control and goes awry. And so how do you sort of maybe it's just this exercise, but how do you get out of that loop?

Speaker 1:

I'm going to share that Clippers Constitution story that we talked about earlier, because it helps answer this question.

Speaker 2:

Coachability awesome, I knew we'd get here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah. Well, here's the thing. I think we all have to develop our own daily scoreboards, and the challenge is when they're solely externally focused like as a salesperson which I was for years and years and years and I could argue I still am for years and years and years, and I could argue I still am. If you only focus on, a winning day means you sold a widget. Not only are you going to have a lack of winning days, but it also lacks fulfillment, it lacks meaning, it lacks purpose. And so back at the Clippers.

Speaker 1:

I remember when we were trying to recruit folks, which we had to kick and beg and squeal just to get folks to show up to the group interview. But I remember very specifically that I would tell folks it's a six to nine week or sorry, six to nine month sales program. And I said if you do these three things for six to nine months, I will take care of you the rest of your life. I will be your friend, your coach, your mentor, your advisor. I don't even care of you. The rest of your life I will be your friend, your coach, your mentor, your advisor. I don't even care if this job works out for you, I will take care of you, human to human, as a whole person.

Speaker 1:

And they said, okay, well, a, what are the three things? And then, when I shared them, they were curious. He didn't talk anything about goals or performance or productivity, which, in sales, that's all it's about. About goals or performance or productivity, which, in sales, that's all it's about. So I said here are the three work ethic, positivity and coachability. Work ethic, positivity, coachability you give me those three things, I will take care of you the rest of your life. And they said well, what about the goals? What about the metrics? What about the KPIs? And I said don't worry about that. I'm only going to extend you an offer If I think you have the skill to do the job. Those three things prove to me that you have the will to do the job.

Speaker 1:

Because, guess what, I cannot coach care. I'll repeat that. I cannot coach care. Leaders out there listening in, I'm sorry to break it to you you cannot make somebody care. I don't care how hard you try, you cannot. You cannot coach care. I found three things that were tied to the success of the outcomes that we look to drive in selling widgets. And I said if you work your tail off, if you are obsessed with getting 1% better every day, that's the coachability. I know it's negative and toxic. It's the freaking clippers.

Speaker 1:

So I need people that are going to be hyper positive, so work your tail off be super positive, get obsessed with growth, which means that you're coachable and you're going to take advice and you're going to get better tomorrow versus today. I'm going to bet on you. And did every person work out? Absolutely not, but at least we had a system and a process and it was doable and it was controllable by the person. And here's the results, because I'm not just going to sound like an airy fairy sales leader that's like oh dude, you're just rainbows and unicorns and mermaids.

Speaker 1:

No, no, before this process, out of 30 NBA teams, we were 28th in revenue. A year later, with the same bad product on the court, we were number two. We went from 28 out of 30 to number two out of 30 because we control the controllables. That can sound like a bumper sticker to you. I don't care. It worked. Work ethic, positivity, coachability. We created a constitution, people wrote their name next to it and I made them a human commitment. I don't care if, in two months, you realize you hate sales and you need to leave. If you give me those three things, you can call me in a decade and I'm still going to have your back. So it was a bit of like human connection, human belief, but it was also a process, like a constitution, that led to our revenue growth.

Speaker 3:

Was there anyone that didn't sign it? Was there anyone that? No, I mean really, or was it a no?

Speaker 1:

there's people that didn't do it. Okay, no, no serious, Well, again. I can't coach care but that's cool. I created three things that prove to me that you care. I promise you, a person that cares is going to work hard. Of course they are. They're going to pick the piece of trash up, not because I told them to, but because they care At Disney. You don't need to tell them to pick up the trash. They care Right.

Speaker 2:

So I just created three pillars that had an umbrella of care because I knew I couldn't coach it. Did you take these three things to the other organizations?

Speaker 1:

that you went on to after that, okay.

Speaker 2:

So this became a bedrock part of everything, but I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 1:

It worked incredibly well at the Clippers because it was an entry-level sales program. At that stage of my career, the more senior the sales folks, I didn't always position it as a constitution because I had to meet them where they were.

Speaker 1:

All of a sudden you're the person calling Levi's to become Levi's stadium. You don't want to hear the talk of how I would talk to a 22 year old straight. So I understood that, hey, you've been in sales for 30 years. I haven't even been working for 30. So I was managing people older than me at some stage of my career. So I modified, but I still knew that that was the internal metric and the scorecard and I would still behind closed doors say it, but I wasn't. It's formal. The constitution was highly affected because of the level of work and also keep it simple and give people easy wins.

Speaker 1:

I have found tremendous success in what's your daily scorecard and, if we zoom out from work, my daily scorecard, I call it the principle of EIR experience, information relationships, experience, information relationships. At the end of every day, if you're listening and watching right now, ask yourself what experience did I gain today, what information did I learn today, what relationships did I build or enhance today? And if you can consistently have positive answers to those three things, you're going to have a winning life. You're going to have momentum. You're going to show up with confidence. That's how I roll. I keep things simple and I make it so that it's fully in your control, and EIR is in your control. I love that.

Speaker 3:

Paul, I just want to thank you for joining us on the podcast and giving us and our listeners a lot to think about, and wonder about and apply and maybe infuse into their communities and their cultures. So I appreciate your insights.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, like what you just said, with the applicability and the simplicity of it, I think that has you know it's long lasting in how a listener can apply it and, like Nathan said, is there anything else that you want to like leave behind as a tie up to this conversation?

Speaker 1:

I would love to and this will not shock anybody, but very similar to what changed my life post retreat to how I think we can all create more momentum coming out of this conversation. And I did say that the ROI of this talk are the decisions you make and the actions you take on Monday morning. So, in Monday fashion, what I would love to do is invite folks to say in Monday fashion, what I would love to do is invite folks to say let's not let the impact expire in this moment. Let's create a winning day, a winning touch point and I call it Monday momentum, where, basically, I knock on the door every Monday not literally, don't worry. Okay, I'm not going to ask for address here, but I will ask for name and email.

Speaker 1:

And here's why Because every Monday morning I want to pop into your inbox and I want to just give you one thing, one thing to win the day, because when we win Monday, we have momentum to win the week and then the next Monday. I'll see you then and I'll see you then and I'll come back to where we can find in just a second. It's really simple Win and I'll come back to where we can find it in just a second. It's really simple. Winmondaywin is the website and the URL winmondaywin.

Speaker 1:

But I want to explain why this is so effective in not only my own life personally, but as I share it out. Because, even as the Win Monday guy, if I'm being completely transparent, it's not like I'm not a superhero. I don't get the alarm that goes off at 4 am which, true, I do wake up at four the alarm that goes off at 4 am on Monday mornings, I don't always feel like getting up, I don't always feel like getting out of bed, I don't always feel amazing at 7 am, 8 am, 10 am. I'm not invincible, but what I've realized is when we surround ourselves with like-minded and like-hearted people that find wins in the small things.

Speaker 1:

And if this wasn't your Monday, maybe you're brushing some, maybe something horrible happened over the weekend and you're not in a position to focus on self-growth on Monday. I get it. I get it Me too. So then I'll see you next Monday. You know, and that's the beautiful, as long as we're winning more than we're losing, it's the compounding effect. So, again, go to winmondaywin, and that's how we can continue the journey together.

Speaker 4:

I'm glad you included that, Paul, because we always want to provide our listeners with resources and places where they can engage in communities with other people that, like you said, are like-minded and striving towards a goal.

Speaker 2:

Paul, thank you so much for this. I have so many more questions. I could do another hour with you, but we won't. But we won't. How?

Speaker 1:

about this. I love talking to you guys, so much At the appropriate time for all parties involved. Would love to run it back and do it again.

Speaker 3:

So I will just say we did not even scratch the surface. I again. So I will say we did not even scratch the surface, I know.

Speaker 1:

It's absolutely I will. How about this? Even I say this at the end of a lot of speeches. I say I'm not going to say goodbye, yes, I'll say I'll see you soon. Shall we say Monday, love it Monday in the future.

Speaker 2:

Paul, thank you so much. Thank you again to Paul Epstein so much for coming on the podcast. It was funny. When we were prepping for this, brian said this guy's a really big deal. Why is he talking to us? And I said, well, we're a really big deal, but I think he meant just, you know, this guy has a background in kind of this executive sports stuff in the NBA and the NFL and doing stuff for the Super Bowl and rubbing shoulders with all of these kind of famous people. But after this conversation, what I've learned of Paul is that we're very similar in we as Leadership Vision and what he's doing with his work in trying to help people do something with their lives, or trying to help people realize and understand their beauty and their brilliance and who they are. And we have very different approaches and you know the way that we do that, but at the end of the day, it's similar work. And we have very different approaches and you know the way that we do that, but at the end of the day, it's similar work and I think that's why we love doing these conversations, why we love having them. Please go learn more about Paul. His website is paulepsteinspeakscom. There's a link in the show notes you can learn about his new book Better Decisions, faster, unshakable Confidence when you Need it Most and he talked about a little bit. We actually didn't mention the book, at least during the recorded part, but a lot of the stuff he was talking about is directly from that book, so go check it out. There's also a direct link to that book in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

But the one thing I wanted to leave you with that really stuck out with me I have it highlighted here in the transcript is when he was talking about values and how do you make values actionable, and he said for the week ahead, I will live my value of blank by doing blank, and I love that because it makes it very specific. It's time bound. So this week ahead, how am I going to do that? And so I would encourage all of you, I would challenge all of you, to do that. I actually have been wrestling with this. I don't have an answer to it. So what I would love is if you'd send me an email, nathan, at leadershipvisionconsultingcom, and let me know, or you can comment on our blog post or on social media. Tell me how, for this week, you are living your value of blank by doing what One very small thing that I have been doing. So he joked in there about throwing bacon in a pan for his value of joy, and I'm going to comment about the Blackstone.

Speaker 2:

So Father's Day I got this big blacktop grill and every meal that makes sense, even some that don't. I'm cooking outside with it Because I think for me it's a value of family and community and coming together, and I don't even exactly know how to articulate it, but for me, what I've been trying to do is every single meal is to cook out there because it's different for our family. It's an opportunity to be together, to connect, so all kind of. It's hard to explain, but it's all like we're cooking and we're eating all in this tight little like square and it's just really meaningful, and so I would encourage you, try that out. Let us know how it's going.

Speaker 2:

If you want to learn more about our podcast or any of our other resources, also in the show notes, visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. And if you're still listening to this podcast this far into it, it means you're a super fan. So thank you, we would love it if you could review us on iTunes or Spotify or, I don't know. Google Play wherever you get your podcasts. It means a lot. It helps us grow the podcast, but more than that, join our free email newsletter. Share this with somebody that you think might be interested in this stuff as well. I'm Nathan Freeberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.