The Leadership Vision Podcast

3 Things All Leaders Need to Navigate Challenging Times

• Nathan Freeburg • Season 7 • Episode 32

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In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, hosts Nathan Freeburg, Brian Shubring, and Dr. Linda Shubring explore the foundational elements that equip leaders to handle crises, challenges, and the evolving landscape of their roles. They discuss the importance of meaningful relationships, personal places of peace, and intentional practices for leaders to remain mentally engaged, emotionally healthy, and resilient. The conversation delves into practical ways leaders can incorporate these elements into their daily routines to maintain balance and thrive, both personally and professionally.

00:14 Essential Elements for Leaders in Crisis
00:44 Meaningful Relationships for Leaders
01:01 Places of Peace: Finding Your Sanctuary
01:15 Intentional Practices: Staying Grounded
06:52 The Importance of Meaningful Relationships
16:07 Exploring Places of Peace
21:43 Intentional Practices for Leaders
32:24 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
33:40 Conclusion and Call to Action

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The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.

Speaker 1:

You're listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Friberg and today in the podcast we're going to dive into the essential elements that prepare leaders to navigate crisis challenges and the ever-changing seasons of their roles. Navigate crisis challenges and the ever-changing seasons of their roles Now, before stepping onto the stage, into the ring or entering the boardroom, great leaders have common practices that set them up for success. In today's episode, brian Linda and I will explore these foundational elements and encourage you to reflect on how they manifest in your own way.

Speaker 1:

First, we'll discuss meaningful relationships. Strong leaders are connected to people who support them through their tensions and challenges. These are individuals they can confide in, who prioritize the person or the issues at hand, offering a safe space to be human, messy and questioning. Next, we'll explore places of peace. We'll ask where do you find your connection? When do you take time to breathe? For some, it's in nature. For others, it might be a quiet place where they can zoom out and gain perspective. And finally, we'll talk about intentional practices what centers you and keeps you grounded, whether it's a daily writing practice, regular exercise, nourishing your body or immersing yourself in art, poetry or music. These intentional habits are crucial for maintaining balance and clarity. Now, as we discuss these elements, think about how they might exist or be missing in your own life. All right, let's dive in and discover the practices that can help you lead with resilience and purpose. Hello, brian and Linda, how are you today?

Speaker 2:

Very well, thank you and you.

Speaker 1:

I am fantastic. Have you been in any places of peace or been doing any intentional practices yet this morning?

Speaker 3:

Today.

Speaker 1:

Today, plenty been done, been doing any intentional practices yet this morning, today, today, plenty. You know I'm excited to talk about this topic today. Sorry, that was a really rough, rough opening. Brian and brian and linda, hello, hello hello how are?

Speaker 3:

you? How are you I?

Speaker 1:

I am excited to talk about this sorry, I'm just jumping right in because I feel like this is so often overlooked well by everyone this idea of like, how do you, as a leader, how do you get what you need to face challenges that are coming up? We have challenges all the time, big and small. Often we like to focus on, you know, strengths, this strength, that how do I lead that tough project or whatever it is but really stopping to focus on again this idea of sort of setting the stage for us as leaders. So do one of you want to perhaps set this up a little bit more? I think I did a pretty good job in the intro but we could always use some extra.

Speaker 2:

I think you did well. Where this podcast came from was Brian and I really talking about the different leaders that we work with, the leaders that we have met over the to to understand all the intensity that is happening in the world. It looks like change, it looks like challenge, it looks like crisis. Someone called it a election season, but they then they called it an election cyclone. So there's so much. There's so much that is happening that I look at the leaders that have to stand in front of the podiums and give answers to a variety of questions and I began to wonder how do they stay centered, how do they prepare themselves, take care of themselves in order to be in a place where they can lead in very challenging times?

Speaker 3:

This conversation is stemming from the ways that we see people paying attention to the noise that's happening around them and that noise creates like this cocoon around someone, and they have to respond and react in a sane way that doesn't threat the role that they're playing within their organization.

Speaker 3:

Their organization itself also has different demands, noise and pressures that people have to respond to or react to in ways that is professional and relational.

Speaker 3:

So when we look at leaders that are navigating not only the cultural, social and political landscape within our current world, they're also doing the same thing. They're navigating the social, relational and political landscape within their companies. When that's done well, there are things that are happening within a leader that helps them maintain their composure, thoughtfully think into what is needed, while respecting themselves and the people that are around them. That gives them the ability to influence people in ways that can really transform an organization and change people's lives I know that that sounds lofty and change people's lives. I know that that sounds lofty, but we are in the business of observing people, naming patterns and practices that people are doing that help them get through, or the things that they're struggling with. And today our conversation is around what leaders are doing to not only lead, but to do so in a way where they are mentally engaged, emotionally healthy and physically present to whomever or whatever is happening around them.

Speaker 2:

And so what we've learned is that these leaders can't do it alone. Even the best of the best do not isolate themselves. They have a person, they have a couple people, they've got their personal board of directors. We even have some of our colleagues that have a personal board of directors, that have a group of people around them that they can truly bounce ideas off of. It's the people that find themselves in a peer group or in a place where they can kind of lay it out on the line, where they can have a little bit of freedom to not have all the answers, to have a little bit of freedom to not say things perfectly, to have some freedom to wonder out loud some things that might scare a bunch of followers if they heard their leader saying those things. And so the importance of leaders finding and having and investing in the meaningful relationships. We believe that it's a key to success.

Speaker 3:

So when we ask the question what do leaders need to when they're facing challenging times? This first topic meaningful relationships is so important because in that meaningful relationship you have a sense of security, a sense of being able to be vulnerable in the midst of change, being authentic and aware of who you really are. And one of the things that we have found is meaningful relationships look different to each person. There are certain meaningful relationships that last for long periods of time, and some are just for shorter periods of time, and that's totally okay. Meaningful relationships sometimes have to do with a person's role to you in an organization or not.

Speaker 3:

This could be an executive who has a trusted assistant, and these people work hand in hand on everything that's going on, and you would never know what the title is by just observing the title of each person, by just observing how they're working together. Meaningful relationships can also be people that are holding you accountable, but also are the ones that are helping you be imaginative and creative in the moment. These are very, very specific, meaningful relationships. But the point is, what type of relationships do you need to be your most authentic self and then to show up as a professional within whatever context you're in, and those types of relationships look different in any kind of context.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when I think about the type of relationships that I need, I need people who not in the same person necessarily, but someone who's going to really challenge me and push me and almost be the devil's advocate. And then I need people who are just going to agree with everything I say, who are going to like, yes, you are right, yes, you are the best, and there's something for me about having both sides that gives me a good perspective to kind of see almost that, that 360 view of what's going on. And then, you know, it's usually my wife of a much more centered person of, well, you're right and you're wrong, um, and then you need people who are like completely uninvolved in any of that and can just like block out some of that craziness and just I don't know, kind of have have fun with. But have you found any sort of themes or patterns, especially with like executives, of the types of meaningful relationships that are most helpful?

Speaker 2:

A lot of the executives that we work with have a person or a family member or a significant other that they point to as their rock or someone that really holds them up. Then there's the people in their life that have provided some sort of coaching, whether that's formally or informally. They have the voices in their life that have sharpened them, given them hope and encouragement, and the more that we have looked at those leaders that really succeed in crisis, they're the ones that have. They have someone behind them. They have people that are standing with them and standing for them. Yes, they're sharpening. I agree with that, nathan. It's important to have those sharpening voices as well, but I think part of the secret is having someone that can hold the tensions that, yeah, some days you're really right and some days you're really wrong, um, and I can accept you for both and I can give you can be true, that's right, and both can be true, um, one more true than the other sometimes, and so when we're working with people, we will.

Speaker 2:

We will ask it's. It's not an ask for like, hey, we have a job. It's more of like, who are those people around you? Spend a little time with them tonight, talk about this over dinner or reach out to them. When was the last time you called that mentor of yours that you've described or that former leader that you used to work with at a different organization? If we can help point people back to the people that really bring them life and meaning, then we feel like we are helping people be set up for a crisis. I like that.

Speaker 3:

The success of meaningful relationships is predetermined by one's relationship with themselves.

Speaker 1:

No, that's true.

Speaker 3:

The more you know about yourself, the more specific these relationships are going to be. Specific, as Linda was talking, I was thinking about many examples of the leaders that we are working with. Each person is surrounded by meaningful relationships. Those meaningful relationships may be from different categories or different roles in an organization, but those meaningful relationships are unique to that person. Where one executive may have an incredible handle on the financial realities of an organization, have an incredible handle on the financial realities of an organization, another executive may not have that kind of handle on the financial side at all. So that's a different need for relationships and I can think like what Belinda was saying who's in your corner? What type of coaching do you need? How well do you know yourself? Do you need relationships with specific types of roles? People within the organization, those that inspire you, those who can work well with you? What do you need as an individual, based on what you bring?

Speaker 1:

Can you give me an example? I would love to hear a non-identifying example of a leader you work with who maybe wrestled with this but then figured out kind of oh, this is what I need, these are the people, this is the whatever. Because, you know, there's sort of a epidemic of loneliness in the United States. I think especially for leaders.

Speaker 1:

And so how does one, if someone's listening to this, be like okay, I got to go find friends? Is there like a what do you call it? Okcupidmatchcom for leadership relationships? Like, how do you, how do you do this?

Speaker 3:

as we're talking about this topic of meaningful relationships, I can't help but seeing several faces run through my mind of people that I, that I know, and what I'm finding is common is that the individuals that are really influential, they know what they need as a person Individually. They know what they need, what types of relationships they need around them so that they, as individuals, feel healthy and whole. And then that same individual has a different set of relationships for their professional life because they know what they need in the professional realm. And many times those two sets of relationships are very different because one is about who they are as an individual and one is about who they are in the public eye, the professional environment and those kinds of relationships and those individuals that I'm describing. They are at peace with that. They aren't making any assumptions that they're the same person at home as they are at work or that their roles are the same. Therefore, they need different types of relationships to maintain their own emotional and relational wellness.

Speaker 2:

Because it's not the same person. I think that I want to hook on to what you said earlier on, nathan, when you were talking about you. Don't expect this all from one person, I think. I think it's doing the evaluation for yourself to say you know what's what's? Who gives me hope? Who holds hope for me? Who are the people that inspire me to act? Who are the people that demonstrate compassion to me when I don't have it necessarily for myself or for the people that I'm working with because there are too many other pressures. Who are the people that challenge my thinking?

Speaker 2:

The other day I was meeting a friend and we laughed for almost three hours. I walked away from a dinner with her and my face was like hurting from smiling. I was just enjoying the opportunity to tell wild stories that we had in common and that at the end I just thought oh, I feel more human by just being able to laugh in the face of very hard times. So, being able to think about the kind of people that make you be better people, and not the ones that just affirm you all the time, but, like you were saying, nathan, earlier, the people that sharpen you, the people that have an expertise or a gifting that's very outside. Of you know who they are.

Speaker 1:

I want to move on to the second one here places of peace. What leaders need to face challenging times.

Speaker 3:

One of the things after meaningful peace a place where the expectations are limited to non-existent, a place where their body can begin to unwind, where they settle into wherever they are and they become more and more present to the environment around them.

Speaker 3:

When they're in that place, they seem to transition from a place of high expectation, a lot of chaos, a lot of noise and a lot of pressure, into a place of being more calm, connected, grounded and happy.

Speaker 3:

And when people know what those places of peace are, then they can access them as a resource when things get tough, or they can integrate those places of peace in their daily routines so that they have a different type of rhythm of what it means to be connected and grounded in a place of peace and what it feels like, and then, conversely, what it feels like when you're merging or bending over into the place of a lot of chaos.

Speaker 3:

Leaders that know where their places of peace are tend to seek those with great intentionality and passion and even with a sense of urgency, because they know that they're missing it. But what's most important is that leaders can identify when have you felt more relaxed, when have you felt like you've been able to unwind, where were you what was happening and how can you replicate that in your current environment? Because most leaders can identify a place of peace when they go somewhere else, when they go on vacation somewhere, where they travel somewhere, and that can be a very meaningful experience. And our question is how can you take that meaningful experience that happens out there and bring it to somewhere that's nearer to here?

Speaker 1:

That's what I was just going to say is that I think a lot of us could find place of peace on vacation. But how do you find that place? Of peace in the hour before your kids wake up in the morning or in the time, Like whatever you know, make it a regular part of your daily routine.

Speaker 2:

Yes, could not agree more, because that's the difficulty Waiting up for vacation or just the places where you can zoom out from your life, from all the to-do lists and your children about to wake up and everything that has everyone's hair on fire, to zoom out and say this is where I hold my cup of coffee and I'm in my rocking chair on the terrace, this is where I can walk around the lake without anything in my ears, just listening to the birds wake up and the day on its way to envelop me.

Speaker 2:

I think there are times where where leaders just have that pause. I met a leader once and he would drive to his meetings and be there. He'd seek to be there five to 10 minutes early and he would just sit in his car and you know, he almost like pretend to take a phone call and he would just, he would breathe, he would zoom out, he would be settled and when he would come into meetings or places, he would bring the exuberance of who he was to the table and it was wondering like we are ready to tackle some really hard, hard issues. Where do you, where do you, you know, get that? And he's like well, I just come here early and I take a little break, um, and it's in those breaks that are the equivalent of like, not just finding a piece where, um, everything is Zen, but it's a place where you can zoom out and detach a little bit to get some perspective on what you might need to handle eventually.

Speaker 3:

A place of peace could be someone's commute to work, where they're listening to a podcast or a certain kind of music, or nothing or nothing.

Speaker 3:

A place of peace could be a yoga class in a specific environment that helps people to unwind. A place of peace could be a walk or a hike in nature. It could be being near water. A place of peace could be watching a movie. It is whatever. Whatever you're doing, wherever you are, that brings you that sense of calm and connection and that reminder that rest and stillness is something that we need as human beings for our overall health.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, completely. It's interesting. We've had, you know, start of summer changing schedules, we've had a bunch of things that have just really thrown our schedule out of whack and with, you know, little kids at home. And I've noticed and this is going to segue into the third one here intentional practices, because my intentional practices and places of peace really go together. It's interesting when, for me, I'll say like I, when I don't have my intentional practice in my place of peace in the morning, it's very noticeable, I'm like the whole day feels off and just weird and like I forgot something. What I'm wondering about is how do you maybe this is a question for the end but not get so reliant on these things that when something does interrupt them, that you don't have the timeline that we have.

Speaker 2:

So it's not like we have to have a certain amount of time, but think about even in a couple breaths. How do I calm myself down? Again?

Speaker 2:

because I think leaders that that are able to navigate in crisis. There is oh man, it's constant, it's constant, and so it takes this interruption to say no, I'm intentionally zooming out and once again, not to hit Zen, but just to hit equilibrium or some of the people when I, when I think of the places of peace, there's people that really come to life when they're giving back. And so, when you volunteer as a community or volunteer as a family, when you're gathered together for a purpose that is outside of yourself, that is outside from the pressures of work, there is something that allows people to come alive, be re-centered in order to prepare for the next.

Speaker 1:

Well, a lot of people think Brian's middle name is Todd, but it's actually. Intentional practices, Brian. Intentional practices, shoebring.

Speaker 2:

It is.

Speaker 1:

Brian has more intentional practices than anybody.

Speaker 3:

I know Linda's nodding her head in agreement. Are you serious? I don't think I have really many.

Speaker 1:

Oh, have you met yourself, brian? What time do you get up?

Speaker 3:

I see where you're going I get up early.

Speaker 1:

Brian gets up where there's a three in the first number, and what do you do then?

Speaker 3:

I do have some intentional practices that are grounding to myself. I need time for contemplation, meditation, reading, writing being still um, those are very intentional practices before I then begin moving my body, you know, waking my body up in a much different way.

Speaker 1:

Which is also an intentional practice. Which are also intentional practices, and by the way, we've joked many times about Brian's intentional practices in early morning. These intentional practices don't have to be a specific morning routine or evening routine, it's just whatever you do during your day to center you, to keep you grounded to. You know, have quote, unquote me time. I think Brian told me, uh, I was doing this massage thing at the health club where remembers, and Brian's like, remember, that's me time.

Speaker 3:

And I was like yes, you can do two things at once with intention. You can have some massage therapy that can also qualify as me time, because your kids aren't giving the massage, they're somewhere else exactly that's they, which they do, and they can do um well, that's a good intentional practices or anything right, I mean, it's just anything that gives you that sense of a sense of this is going to sound and a sense of identity.

Speaker 3:

Intentional practices can give you a sense of compassion and intentional practices can give you a sense of control. Because when I read intentional practices, yep, there are many that you do personally to help you get grounded as an individual. There are also intentional practices that you bring to the workplace that help you do the same thing, that help you gain that sense of connection to what it is that you're going to be doing for the day.

Speaker 3:

A sense of compassion of what can and cannot be done, just that confidence for you to walk through it. Now I've met many people that have intentional practices of how they make their daily schedule or who are the first couple of people they talk to during the day, to how their calendars are set up, with time to prep for meetings. Just spoke with a person that has an intentional practice of turning her camera on for a meeting five minutes before, so she's not late. But it's just this sense of I'm ready now. You know I'm ready for this meeting Now.

Speaker 3:

That's an intentional practice, that a reflection of you being mindful to the needs that you have to show up as a professional. Linda and I have an intentional practice of checking in throughout the day just to see how we're doing and we're learning certain ways to communicate to each other so that that meeting isn't too pressure-filled. And Linda has a way of asking me well, what are you thinking about now? And just that permission giving to kind of press pause, intentionally reflect, without any super high expectation, that's also an intentional practice. So we are talking about what we do for ourselves. And then we are also talking about what intentional practices do you have that helps you do your work, perform your job duties and be responsible to the organizations that you work for.

Speaker 1:

I just listened to this podcast of this author, who wrote this book, about routines and just how important they are, how sometimes we can get stuck in them, and one of the things that he said was there's some people that think, oh, I don't have any routines, I'm spontaneous, whatever. And then you start talking to someone and they realize all the routines that they have. It can be as simple as the way that they set the table or whatever it is, and it helps us make meaning and all that stuff. And have you found that leaders who may be like well, I don't have an intentional practice is if they sit down and just kind of write out like a schedule of their day, they can help identify some of those things and then realize, oh, there are these touch points in my life that perhaps you know as part of a routine, as part of a habit that perhaps I could be a little bit more intentional with and thereby getting a little bit more of that centered space.

Speaker 2:

Does that make sense? It does make sense, I think. Some of the leaders that we talk to maybe center all their practices around the work and not necessarily around but how are you caring for your body so that you can?

Speaker 2:

show up and be well-fed, well-rested and exercised right. And then when we're engaging people and asking about what kind of practices, nathan, there are people that don't necessarily have them. They have let routines find them. Um, I remember in my early twenties someone was asking me about, like, what is, what's something that you do every day? I couldn't think of one thing.

Speaker 3:

Really.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah. I mean what 30 years ago. So, uh, I couldn't think of one thing, and so I started making coffee. And uh, I couldn't think of one thing, and so I started making coffee. And it was in that practice, where, that's where I would begin to pay attention. I and Brian jokes, but I, but I'll say things like I'm just easing into my day. Don't come, I know you've been up for a couple hours now. It's five, 30. So just give me a chance to make my coffee.

Speaker 2:

And making coffee for me was one of those quotidian things, those everyday things that allowed me to just have a certain kind of rhythm, which then, as I got older, more mature, when the pressures were mounting, even higher.

Speaker 2:

That's where I began to introduce other things, whether it's, you know, running in the morning, whether it's a meditative practice, whether it's the way that I connect with people, or who I call or who I am in conversation with to get my mind in the right place, or who I'm meeting with, or how I'm responding. The yep, the act of making sourdough bread gives me pause, and every 20 minutes, when I'm getting the dough ready on the day before I'm going to bake, there's something that happens, and I've made more peace with that. So we encourage the leaders that we're talking to to think outside the box. So sometimes people are like well, it sounds like we're just having a conversation, but we're trying to get at some of those things that are routine, some of those things that they rely on. That all right. If the whole world is just going to blow up, at least today I can go on a little run.

Speaker 1:

Well, that was I mean, that was COVID right. You had people who weren't able to do their intentional practices. That went crazy. And then people like the three of us. I think that could either find new ones, or, you know, going for a run is a big thing for all three of us and that was like one of the only things you could continue to do, especially early on during the pandemic.

Speaker 1:

We had dinner with some friends we hadn't seen in quite a while and he was like, oh, you're still doing the running thing. I was like, still doing the running thing, this is like a part of my life, this is my identity, like this is I do this every day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes, this isn't like a little hobby I do every once in a while. It is beyond that. It is an intentional practice that I do, you know, six, if not seven days a week, and if I've got an injury or something, I have to bike. I just I feel like it's just not the same.

Speaker 2:

Which some people could talk about as play, like thinking, like oh, Nathan, you're just playing, like you're just going for a run, and we often say that that in play is just practice, in disguise, uh, disguised as just something fun, that that you are doing and engaging in and realizing, oh, I want to do more of that. I'm going to um. I want to be in those places where, where I can, where I can come to life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that new Adam Grant book you sent me talks about finding the hidden potential. A lot of it is through, not a lot of it, but one section about he was talking about like, especially with kids, like letting them play more kind of brings out, can bring out some of that hidden potential, versus always being so hyper-structured. So to kind of wrap this up here, we've been interviewing a lot of authors lately and I've asked them this question what would you say, the one thing that you hope leaders get out of this podcast, after kind of hearing this idea of these three things to get through challenging times, what's maybe one I don't know nugget or tidbit, or just if you walk away with nothing else, remember this.

Speaker 2:

I'm not sure if it's a nugget or tidbit. It would be listening to where your mind was going or your heart was going as you were listening to some of these thoughts, Because oftentimes with leadership there's just a fine tuning. It's not like okay, now I need an overhaul, Now I've got to do this and this and this and this.

Speaker 2:

It's like maybe my relationships need a little fine tuning, maybe I need to reach out to a few more people, maybe I do need to spend even just five minutes in that place of peace that gives me a sense of calm and confidence. Maybe there is just a new practice that I want to engage in, or I want to reframe that practice as something that's actually helping me do my work and equip me in order to lead in the time of chaos or crisis.

Speaker 1:

I love it. Brian and Linda, thank you so much. Thank you, Nathan.

Speaker 3:

Thanks.

Speaker 1:

And thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you found value from this episode or any of our other online resources, we would love it if you could either give us a review on Spotify, itunes, wherever you get your podcasts. You can join our free email newsletter, leadershipvisioncom, or you can follow us on all the social channels. But, perhaps most importantly, forward this to someone that you think could benefit from learning more about getting themselves through challenging times. My name is Nathan Freeberg.

Speaker 2:

I'm Linda Schubring.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Brian Schubring.

Speaker 1:

And on behalf of our entire team thanks for listening.