The Leadership Vision Podcast

The Power of Compassionate Leadership with Dr. Andrea Hollingsworth

• Nathan Freeburg • Season 7 • Episode 39

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In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we have the pleasure of talking with Dr. Andrea Hollingsworth, the founder of Hollingsworth Consulting and author of 'The Compassionate Advantage.' She shares her journey from academia to consulting and emphasizes the growing importance of compassionate leadership in our modern world. Together, we explore crucial strategies like compassionate accountability, self-care, and the creation of healing work environments. Dr. Hollingsworth provides us with practical insights on how to integrate compassion into leadership, offering stories and actionable advice that can help foster a positive team culture. We discuss real-world applications of compassionate action in workplaces and the impact these strategies have on leadership and team dynamics. This conversation encourages us to consider how we can apply these compassionate leadership principles to improve our own team environments and navigate challenges more effectively.

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Speaker 1:

And the question that has driven me for so long is how do people change for the better? Finding a way to ask a meaningful check-in with anybody in your life, especially somebody on your team, opens up hope, because when people feel seen and witnessed, they feel connected, and connection is the pathway to healing. It absolutely is. There's no other pathway to healing. So it opens up that doorway where people feel just a little bit more resilient because now somebody, now I'm more connected to somebody who witnesses me. And no, this person didn't just solve all my problems, but it's that power of connection and listening and care that can make a huge difference.

Speaker 2:

You're listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about us, visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Friberg and in this episode we have the pleasure of speaking with Dr Andrea Hollingsworth, founder and CEO of Hollingsworth Consulting and author of the new book the Compassion Advantage.

Speaker 2:

Dr Andrea is a global expert on compassionate leadership with a rich background in both the science and spirituality of human emotions and relationships. Our conversation includes her journey from academia to consulting and the vital importance of compassionate action in leadership. We also touch on key strategies like compassionate accountability, self-care and creating work environments that foster connection and healing. Now, as you listen to this, consider how these insights on compassion and leadership could be applied to your own context to build a positive team culture and navigate challenges effectively. Andrea was a delight to talk with and we think that you're really going to enjoy this conversation. You can learn more about her and how to order her new book via the link in the show notes. All right, so here's Linda, brian and I talking with Dr Andrea Hollingsworth. Enjoy.

Speaker 3:

Today is a huge day because, according to Amazon, this is it? This is your pub date for your hardcover.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, it's really serendipitous that we're having this conversation on my hardcover release date. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 2:

Do you get real time? Updates on like how manytime updates it feels great, I don't have any real-time updates.

Speaker 1:

I have people kind of sending me little notes.

Speaker 4:

You're almost sold out. It says on Amazon. There's like a couple books left, so you better restock what.

Speaker 1:

I don't believe it. I think that they just say that to get you to buy it.

Speaker 4:

No, I believe it. You better start making some money. Only 20 left Control P, just start printing some.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'll go to my book workshop and start gluing the pages in more, because, yeah, there you go, all right.

Speaker 2:

So, congratulations.

Speaker 4:

Sincerely, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 3:

And Andrea. We met officially like a little over a year ago and I remember sitting with you, um, at the Hope Breakfast Bar and we were just chatting and very quickly in the conversation I felt like we've known each other for a long time and I think a lot of it right.

Speaker 3:

It, uh, it felt like, uh, we're passionate about similar things. Um, what you're doing in industry is so important, what you're doing with your clients and the people that you serve, and so when I heard that you had published the book it was ready to come out I was so excited and I'm so glad that you have been willing to join us on the podcast, because I've been talking to Brian and Nathan about you, just like she's she's one of us.

Speaker 4:

Um, I thought you were working for us.

Speaker 1:

That's a huge honor. Well, hey, we would talk, but there you go.

Speaker 3:

So I appreciate your shorthand, I appreciate how you've made your work very accessible to people, very well steeped in self-compassion as you know, the three of us are also academics, but we also want to want to make our work accessible to the masses. And what you, what you have written, is beautiful, and so I just want to start by giving you a and many stars.

Speaker 4:

Five stars.

Speaker 1:

That means so much to me. I have so much respect for all of you and the incredible work that you do, so it's really an honor to have the conversation.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Brian and Nathan and I have been having a lot of fun trying to figure out how to best serve our listeners and expand some of our reach. We started a self-compassion journey as a company about three years ago and we actually had a mindfulness and self-compassion coach on our podcast. Was it last week or two weeks ago? A couple episodes ago.

Speaker 4:

When that takes care of us.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and so it was wonderful to hear from her. And then I thought this is a perfect intro into Andrea, into your work, and so I would love you to introduce yourself to our listeners. So who are you?

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's fantastic to be here. So my name is Dr Andrea Hollingsworth. I am a former academic professor. I taught theology for a number of years. I have a background also in counseling, marriage and family therapy, and the question that has driven me for so long is how do people change for the better, which usually will morph into conversations about how do people heal, because the world throws its lumps at us, and so I feel like I've been studying academically and in my work with my therapy clients and just in life, compassion for a long time, because compassion is really a huge part of how we heal and how we transform for the better, yeah, in a really wounded world. And so I transitioned out of academia in 2016.

Speaker 1:

And in 2020, during the pandemic, I started putting together all of this scholarly research that nobody cares about into something more packageable and and like chewable like for normal people who don't go to the library and look up arcane things about medieval philosophy and it's been fantastic to translate. Yeah, you're welcome. I thank myself too. I'm having a lot more fun now, but it's been wonderful to translate all the academic research I did on spirituality research. I did on on spirituality and, you know, on healing, on human relationships and the science and and the you know just the beauty of human relationships into things that can make a difference in companies, things that can make a difference in on teams, and things that can make a difference in the lives of individual leaders, and so and and also just in life. So it's been. It's been so much, so much fun the last couple of years. It's lovely, lovely work.

Speaker 4:

Well, I got a question for you, because you mentioned around that 2020, that that transition you made um, was there something internal that was driving that, that pivot to to maybe write the book or to synthesize and simplify your information, or is it something external that you felt was drawing you towards that, or some combination of both? But what was the catalyst?

Speaker 1:

oh, what a great question. Well, 2020 was a year that was a year, wasn't it that?

Speaker 3:

was a year.

Speaker 1:

That's right so glad we're not in year anymore.

Speaker 1:

I was locked at home with a toddler in the house and I had, you know, my life had been in transition for a couple of years anyway. I no longer had a job and I was going out of my mind. I was suffering quite a bit Like a lot of us are suffering, but I thought I have to do something, like a lot of a lot of us are suffering, but I thought I have to do something. And so it was out of that sense of you know, I have to do something with my mind. I'm going nuts.

Speaker 1:

I started doing free classes in mindfulness and compassion for the community actually like for my local yoga group that I was a part of and started doing some writing and meeting with people individually.

Speaker 1:

And it just sparked this amazing journey because some of the people in that freebie group, of course, we met over Zoom Everybody's, you know, on lockdown in the pandemic A couple of people in that group were like, hey, I'm a business leader, you should start doing this for management. And then it just kind of went from there. I had a neighbor who was the head of HR at a local credit union and she said hey, why don't you come in and do your thing with my managers. We want to learn about compassion and mindfulness and I was like, really, she's like yeah, so I did it and it was so much fun and they loved it and I thought I'm gonna keep doing this. So that's kind of how it all started. And then the book the book was really easy to write because it was just I compiled a lot of the things that I had been working on with people and with groups for a couple of years and it was like it just came together really, actually pretty quickly.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, one of my favorite parts of reading the book was reflecting on how I felt while I was reading the book, cause I felt like I was sitting with a cup of coffee and a notebook across from you. Um, so, when you say, it just kind of flowed out of you, it really felt that way. Were you like writing academic versus writing what I what I would call very authentic and genuine, accessible? Was that a hard leap, or was that just no? This is how this is me.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it felt like I was coming into myself. I will like, I will say, and this is gonna touch to on some of the material in the book when I was in that pressure cooker of academia, I felt like I couldn't write like me. You know, there's all these rules and regulations and everybody's trying to impress everybody else by having, like you know, having footnotes bigger than the actual page. It's just, it's so bonkers, everybody's hedging and positioning themselves, and I thought I just want to speak to people about things that matter and how they can heal and how they can have better relationships and be a better leader, and so I do feel like it freed me to just be me.

Speaker 1:

I love your question because it asked me to think about what headspace was I in when I was writing and I really was envisioning the people with whom I've engaged, the coaching that that I've engaged, with, whom I've engaged, the, the coaching clients, the therapy clients, the management groups, the executives, and, and really just that storytelling and and and those tips that have been so helpful. And I think I was, I think I was on the other side of of you, linda, facing you with a cup of coffee. I think there's something to that you, linda, facing you with a cup of coffee, I think there's something to that.

Speaker 3:

Well, I just plowed through it. I went back to go through some of the questions, but it was something that it was just I consumed. So what parts of the book, now that it's written, it's published, are you the most proud of, or are you finding the most connection with people, especially with the pre-reading crowd?

Speaker 1:

There's a couple of things that are really hitting home with people, and the first one that came to mind is near the end of the book, when I'm talking about strategies for compassionate action in the workplace. I have a section on how to navigate conflict with compassion, and if you take a step back and look at our society and the moment we're in with politics and an upcoming election, it's not hard to figure out why that's landing pretty powerfully with people, and so that in that section I go through some some really key points for how to do conflict Well and it doesn't, you know, not necessarily about about politics, but conflict comes up all the time in human relationships, and so the pointers that I offer in that section are really really landing with people right now. And the other one is self-compassion because, let's face it, we're all suffering. The world is a really tough place to live in right now at every level, and it often can just feel oh.

Speaker 1:

I think a lot of us are grieving, I think a lot of us are angry, I think a lot of us are overwhelmed and exhausted. And so when leaders are aware of these things, and especially when they're aware of how these societal traumas and stresses are affecting themselves and can offer themselves that really radical self-care. It changes the way they can be present to other people, it changes what they see with other people, it changes their attention and their presence with the people that they lead, because they know that, hey, this is hurting me too, and yet I can care for myself, show up and be strong and move forward anyway. And that gives people this sense of that kind of self-aware strength. As you all know, exudes something to others and it makes them feel safe and seen and very much supported and like they are more capable, like they can actually do the work that that they've been wanting to do, because now they feel, um, they feel connected in a different way, because now they feel connected in a different way.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, the self-compassion piece, but then also the conflict piece have been important lately and I wonder if the naming of the suffering that we're experiencing, the naming of some of the pain points, is the doorway into not just self-compassion or compassion towards others, but maybe it's the doorway into hope right. Giving people hope that you don't just have to stay in the state that you are, that if we treat each other differently or we treat ourselves differently with more kindness and compassion, that there's greater hope for us. Do you resonate with that?

Speaker 1:

I do, I do. One of my favorite philosophers is Simone Weil, and she argued that one of the most powerful and actually spiritually potent questions you can ask somebody is what are you going through? What are you going through, and just various iterations of that question. Finding a way to ask a meaningful check-in with anybody in your life, especially somebody on your team, opens up hope, because when people feel seen and witnessed, they feel connected, and connection is the pathway to healing. It absolutely is. There's no other pathway to healing. The pathway to healing. It absolutely is, there's no other pathway to healing. So it opens up that doorway where people feel just a little bit more resilient because now somebody, now I'm more connected to somebody who witnesses me. And no, this person didn't just solve all my problems, but it's that power of connection and listening and care that can make a huge difference.

Speaker 4:

Andrea, as you're talking to business leaders on how to create places and environments and teams where self-compassion is not only recognized as important but is practiced, how do you introduce the concept of self-compassion to the business culture in general? Is that a big leap, or do we already know that we need it?

Speaker 1:

Good question, oh goodness, it is a bit of a leap. Well, first of all, just the word compassion. In general, people think it's a bunch of woo, woo soft stuff that they don't need. So there's a business case you have to make for it and I'm sure, I'm sure you know that the research shows that all of this makes a huge difference for the bottom line. I don't need to tell you all that.

Speaker 1:

But, um, when I'm introducing self-compassion, I actually start with um, I start with some stories about my own inner critic and my own maladaptive perfectionism and how it impacted my professional life and my leadership journey in very, very bad ways. And people really resonate with those stories. I mean truly my, my maladaptive perfectionism kind of ruined my academic career, Um, and so I realized I needed to find a different way to operate in my life if I was going to find happiness and success, um, as a person and as a professional. But the other thing is I tell there's a really interesting story that I tell that really resonates with business leaders, Um, and this is a true story of a, a friend um and a former client who was working um in a key division of the city of Minneapolis, uh, during the George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd and the aftermath of that. During the George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd and the aftermath of that. And he um, there was a member of his team that responded publicly to that event in some ways that ended up really deeply wounding and hurting some other members of his team. So so he was, you know, leading a very fractured team. There'd been some statements made very offensive to some other members of his team.

Speaker 1:

So then he found himself on a large zoom call with the entire department and he modeled, he began that meeting, that very tense you can imagine very tense meeting where people have a lot of feels. Right, he opened it up by modeling self-compassion and it was a game changer. He started off by saying everybody, I'm feeling a lot. Game changer he started out by saying everybody, I'm feeling a lot, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling a lot of sadness, I'm sad for the pain on our team, for the divisions on our team, and I'm sad about the pain and the divisions in our city. And before we go into problem solving mode, I, just I want us all to breathe. I want us all to notice if our heart rate is up and if we're needing to take a few deep breaths, um, because all of these feelings are welcome.

Speaker 1:

If we weren't feeling them, we wouldn't be human and, more than anything, we in this department, in this division, need to hold on to our humanity.

Speaker 1:

And he, and then he led everybody in a moment of silence and he gave them a chance to check in compassionately with how their body they're like their nervous system was doing in the moment, Um, and he did that too, and he was vulnerable, right, Sharing how his heart rate was up, and he needed to take some breaths and here are my emotions.

Speaker 1:

And it just softened people so that they were able to listen, because they felt like they had permission to be human. They didn't have to, they didn't have to come in with with all of their, all of the things we come into in a situation like that, all of our defenses, all of the blaming right, All the ugly stuff. And it was kind of one of these moments where it really, um, laid the groundwork for a shift in some really difficult conversations around inclusion and culture and difference within that division. And so that story, you know, it brings together so much it's self-compassion, it's modeling that for other people, but it's also saying like, hey y'all, let's do this together and have it be the groundwork for some healing here and for some progress.

Speaker 4:

And that's a great story. Remembering all those events, it must have took a vast amount of courage for him to present himself to his peers like that. You mentioned many times the voice of the self-critic. I know that in this practice that's one of the things that I know people resonate with a lot. How is it that you help people become more aware of the impact of the self-critic and then how to practice? Maybe another tone of voice towards themselves, another perspective?

Speaker 1:

That's a great question too. Well, the first challenge, of course, is noticing your inner critic, and a lot of this is based in. If any of your listeners know internal family systems, theory and parts work, they'll be like oh yeah, that's, it's coming in here, but you know, we're all. It's just a helpful way of thinking about our minds. We have these different, you know, personalities or different parts, and most of us have, especially if we're high achieving leader type people, a pretty muscled up inner critic who likes to keep us in line, because they think that the more they bludgeon us into submission, the more successful and protected and happy we're going to be in life, which is, of course. They're just trying to do their best to, to to help us do well, right, but it ends up backfiring. And so helping people notice in the moment, what are they saying to themselves? Is there this underlying sense of like I'm not good enough, I'll never be good enough, I can't ask for help because I'm afraid of looking stupid, I have to do it all by myself, it has to be better, I don't know when it's good enough. And so just getting people to first notice that and quiet themselves in order to notice that, I think is the first thing.

Speaker 1:

I sometimes have people name their inner critic. My inner critic's name is Marlene. Like she's, she's, she's not a nice person. I just talked to her hey, marlene, you're back. You're back and you're better than ever today, aren't you, marlene?

Speaker 2:

Interesting. Yeah, marlene, that's really.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, my performance coach did the same thing Name your inner critics. I called her Amy, which is my coach's name.

Speaker 1:

That's hilarious, not helpful.

Speaker 2:

I have a question.

Speaker 4:

Leadership in the workplace and compassion that seems to be an oxymoron, like peanut butter and jelly. Now, this idea of leadership is.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Nathan. Peanut butter and jelly is not an oxymoron, but go on Totally. Those two things don't go together. They go together absolutely go together.

Speaker 4:

Why that's people? You're distracting me.

Speaker 1:

I'm trying to make peace in paris my son agrees with you, brian. He does not like peanut butter and jelly either. He's on your team my neighbor's mom.

Speaker 4:

Growing up it was butter and peanut butter that I thought was a match made in heaven.

Speaker 2:

That's also good.

Speaker 1:

I mean that's pretty good, that's pretty good stuff right there. Anyway, we digress, go on, go on.

Speaker 3:

Steak.

Speaker 4:

Leadership and self-compassion, Self-compassion in the workplace, Knowing a little bit about all three of these things. If you're asking, or when we ask people to be self-compassion, it's going to impact what's happening in the workplace. How do leaders I don't know if accommodates the right word, but provide space and permission for people to be self-aware, to be mindful of how they're feeling and aware of their environment? What's the challenge that leaders often find in creating these safe places in the workplace?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a great question. So I tell the story in my book and in some of my talks that I give about Ramona Sekira, who's an executive at Takeda, and I really think she modeled a way into this, because it really comes down to the way that you listen and the way that you ask questions and your presence, your leadership presence as you do that. So she told this story, uh, to me and to several others and now it gets told lots of places again. In the wake of of the pandemic and all of the upset that was happening there, she had some roundtables with her very large team that was spread across North America at that time. Now she's doing global leadership but she would get everybody on a virtual call and she pushed herself to get out of problem solving mode, to get out of defensiveness mode, um, to not need to fix, save, heal, solve, and she simply wanted to truly understand what people were worried about and what they were wondering about. And she found ways of communicating that by looking directly into her computer camera, by softening her shoulders and then by asking questions like tell me, perhaps she had an employee ERG group around Asian American inclusion? Are we doing enough around inclusion for our Asian American colleagues right now? And if we aren't, what do you suggest?

Speaker 1:

And then openness, not defensiveness. Questions like what do you need from me that you're not seeing right now? Questions like just tell me what you're going through, what's on your mind? Extremely open questions Tell me what's on your mind about X, Y, Z, very broad topic, and then just listen, and she would nod her head and then when somebody would answer, she would say thank you, tell me more about. And then she would go a little bit deeper. And so it softened the person, so that it asked them to be self-aware about well, gosh, tell me, I guess there is more. And then the person would offer more and then maybe there was a third layer of a follow-up question that really got to the heart of the issue. She would do this with multiple people on the call and everybody else observing knew that.

Speaker 1:

A my leader is absolutely dedicated to hearing me out and understanding what I'm going through. Wow, I trust her, Like I. I feel I feel witnessed and and look at how she is, and then she would find solutions. Sometimes, Like one time she told me a story of one of her team leaders, told a story of a colleague at work making a really racially insensitive comment about the neighborhood in which he had grown up, Like I don't even drive through that neighborhood, it's you know, it's whatever. And he felt really insulted by that. So he was sharing that on one of these calls and she listened, she empathized, she named the ways that wow, you know, that comment was completely inappropriate in this workplace. And then she started thinking more deeply about hey, you know, Takeda is a pharmaceutical company. What can we do to get more life-saving medicines into your neighborhood?

Speaker 1:

And that started a month-long initiative to target that employee's neighborhood and get more resources, more medical resources, into the pharmacies and his and the doctor's hands in his neighborhood. So she would take these stories of pain like, hey, somebody just insulted my neighborhood here at work and she'd be like dang, that isn't appropriate and guess what? We're going to go do something in your neighborhood. Wow, like so it wasn't just understanding, it was action. And that speaks.

Speaker 3:

And were there ripples then for other leaders that were noticing her way of leading? And I think that's what you try to do. In a culture of care, there has to be that first person, probably with a lot of power to model the way, probably with a lot of power to model the way. But I think a lot of times people will catch the culture of care bug and want to give it to others too. Where have you seen some of the ripples of those examples like Ramona? In other places?

Speaker 1:

Well, there's one organization that I've worked with for about three years now and I remember when I started I did my compassionate leadership workshop and this is actually the HR leader that I spoke with you earlier. She's my neighbor. She's like come and work with my manager. She was like my first client. And I remember one of the first, you know, in my first feedback session that I got, she got on.

Speaker 1:

She said do you know what I kept hearing? People were so relieved, they're so relieved that they have permission to care at work. Everybody does care about others, but there's this unspoken rule that it's like. You know, you have to park your feelings at the door, and we're strictly business here. Park your feelings at the door and we're strictly business here. And she said people were so amazed that on their calendar they were invited to some kind of a summit on compassion and she said so anyway. That permission to care was the first thing that happened.

Speaker 1:

And then the ripple effects what I've seen is, you know she's reported um higher retention over the last three years when she does employee surveys. The employee satisfaction, employee engagement has gone up. We've done follow-up workshops on employee resilience and on self-compassion and on mindfulness and on some other things, and every time we do one she just talks about. When she first contacted me, her big issue was retention. She's like we're having toxicity here People are leaving and as her management group gets more skills and more tools for I mean, it's a practice, it's not something that comes intuitively to everybody, and so I give people actual phrases that they can say, like in a team huddle. That will help everybody feel more connected. Right, and so they've been doing these things.

Speaker 1:

It's not quite flashcards, but that's not a bad. You know, like business idea a little bit of a little bit of merch maybe in my future around flashcards. So they've seen some business outcomes as well as just culture outcomes.

Speaker 2:

Andrew, one of the concepts that really stuck out to me was this idea of compassionate accountability that you write about later in the book. And why that stuck out to me was because those are two very difficult things. So whether you're, you know, a team leader, a parent on a volunteer committee, like holding people accountable is just hard, no matter what, but then doing it with compassion. So I think what?

Speaker 1:

do you?

Speaker 2:

where's the quote here? I think I lost it. You say compassion and accountability is about doing the hard thing with heart. So not only are you like holding someone just accountable is hard, but then doing it with heart as a leader, you know, working on my own compassion and self-compassion, but then to treat another person that way, there's like all of that work going on in addition to holding someone accountable for the work that they're doing or that they shouldn't be doing, or whatever. I don't know exactly what the question is in there. But how do you counsel people? Or you know?

Speaker 2:

help people to do that, because I think it's incredibly important, as is, you know, all the things that we've been talking about. But does that make sense? Do you find something to answer in that word? Salad, okay.

Speaker 1:

It absolutely does. You know, when people are, when people are not living into their potential as, as you know, as employees, how, how are you going to show up with compassion but also really help them along so that the work can get better? Brave, and to sit down with somebody and to ask, you know, and to ask them some questions that will help get them into well? You know, how is it not going well with my work? I tell a story in that chapter about about a friend of mine who is the CFO of a company that makes snack foods for kids and a while back one of her team members really messed up and sent an overseas order for snacks to be made but there was one of these toxic ingredients included in the recipe and it was a very, very expensive mistake and my friend had to sit down with this employee and say, you know, wtf, basically. And she talks about sorry, but she talks about the process that she went through because she's a very caring but she's also like a very powerful leader the process she went through with regard to accountability with that employee and it was just amazing. So I'll give you some of the pointers.

Speaker 1:

She started out by saying to the person, I have to have a difficult conversation with you. And that immediately, just like clear as kind you know, letting people know right away this is going to be a difficult conversation with you. And that immediately, just like clear as kind you know, letting people know right away this is going to be a difficult conversation. She made sure she did all of her catharsis, screaming, kicking, yelling outside of the meeting Right, so she didn't come, come in with all that. That is where to do it. You'd be amazed at the number of therapy clients I've had who have been verbally abused by their managers. It's not okay and it happens way too much, way too much. And then she asked you know, not in a sort of pejorative way, but she would ask you know, help me understand basically how this happened, or you know how you made this decision, or whatnot.

Speaker 1:

And she says she tries to keep an open mind because sometimes she learns things that she didn't know went into the mistake or the underperformance. So in this case she learned that the mistake was made while this employee was kind of new and there was somebody else that was supposed to be overseeing and mentoring who had completely dropped the ball. So she realized, oh, she's going to have to have another you know conversation with somebody else as well, and then she always leaves the conversation by by giving some pointers for you know, here's how. Here's some steps you can take to make this better. Here are some very clear ways that I'm I'm going to be looking for and hoping you know, hoping to see some follow through in these in XYZ, because people feel empowered after something has gone wrong.

Speaker 1:

Nobody likes facing into their mistakes and their underperformance. They want they don't want to walk away being like, oh my gosh, I suck, I'm lost when it comes to getting better. They want very clear steps for how to make it better, and so she always make sure that she does that as well, and so those are just a couple of guidelines that I offer people for compassionate accountability.

Speaker 2:

That's great, because I and what I like about that is it sounds like that that leader had already done some, not only the kicking and screaming for her beforehand, but even the practice of even knowing that she should do that beforehand. And so I think you know maybe that's the lesson in this too is, as a leader, you need to be working on yourself in all of these areas, which seems so obvious. But, as you just mentioned, how many people are verbally abused by their manager or leader at work because that leader is not working on themselves so yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4:

That's helpful.

Speaker 1:

You're welcome, Andrea.

Speaker 4:

I love the theme of your book for compassion to work. We know that there are individuals that have specific needs. We also that the environment is really important. How is it that you address the message of compassion to larger audiences and even like work teams, while highlighting the individuals?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Yep. Well, I have several ways of doing that. I love speaking to large groups. I feel like I'm able to really, really connect with folks in that space who are listening, through my stories and through the really actionable strategies that I give people to. Here are some things you can say. Here are some things you can do to really start to cultivate this in your life. And I have so much fun on stage. It's just honestly, it's just a whole lot of fun. I get to play and people walk away feeling hope. You know, linda mentioned hope earlier. They feel like they have some ways to instill more hope into and more connection into their lives and into the lives of those that they're leading. So I love doing those larger keynotes for groups.

Speaker 1:

When I'm working with management teams, smaller teams of executives, I will meet with people in smaller spaces, and so often if I'm working with a global company, this is virtually, and I have a series of workshops that I offer that really, that really are helpful for people as well. But I also customize, you know, if people are needing something specific. I've I have a couple of companies that have really needed work and help and support. And how do we do change management compassionately Right, and so that's been. That's been a workshop that I've recently put together, um, but I also work with individuals.

Speaker 1:

I do coaching. I call it therapeutic coaching because I have a background as a therapist. But I also want to keep a pulse on you know, the skills and the goals and the ways that you're, you know, taking step towards living into that potential for yourself as a professional, and so I kind of blend the therapeutic healing side with the goal realization in your professional life side, and so therapeutic coaching is something I do with individuals as well. So there's several wings of the business, so to speak, but I love all of the ways that I help people and still compassion to their life as a leader and as a person.

Speaker 3:

It's beautiful. We have many people that are individual contributors that listen, and my mother's name, marlene, and she's really wonderful, positive, so her strength of harmony and she listens faithfully. But there are many people on teams that are trying to understand and cultivate more components of a positive team culture with their teams, and you've named many, many of them. There's also leaders that listen that are in charge of many different organizations or on boards or what have you. Is there any way that you can give us some? You know, pick a people group, offer some of the strategies that our listeners could walk away with, from the individual contributor to the one that is responsible, to the thousands or for the thousands. What are some strategies, maybe three strategies that could really that people could enact or practice today.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, I'm gonna off the top of my head. I think I'm going to start with those. I'll start with those who are leading small teams right, and I'll kind of go from there. If you're leading a small team of people and if you've got a group of people who are struggling with, maybe there's been a change in the organization or maybe just everybody's feeling the stress of the election. One thing that I encourage people to do is to say to themselves this mantra care, don't carry, care, don't carry, because you want to offer your support, but all of us need inward boundaries. We cannot walk around as a leader carrying the pain and the stress of our team. It will weigh us down. And so you could also say to yourself I'm a supporter, not a savior. Give yourself permission to care, but too much empathy, too much compassion can absolutely drown you and you have permission to set some inward boundaries right. To those who are maybe in middle management and setting up systems and structures for projects and initiatives, maybe managing multiple teams, what I would encourage them to do is to really keep an eye on consistency and rhythmicity within their initiatives, because human beings feel cared for and safe and like there's trust and a space for healing when they can predict what's coming, to the best of their ability. Obviously, you can't, like you know, lay all the cards out there, but really creating a lot of consistency and rhythmicity. There's a part of the brain called the diencephalon and when it's activated it it it creates a soothing, peaceful, um healing thing in the central nervous system. And when humans have rhythmicity, predictability, consistency and the structures and systems at work, they thrive. And when humans have rhythmicity, predictability, consistency and the structures and systems at work, they thrive. And that's a very compassionate thing you can do at a structural level and then for executives at the very top.

Speaker 1:

I'm so inspired by Pamela Maynard, who's the CEO of Avanade, and she talks about something called ruthless self-care.

Speaker 1:

Ruthless self-care Uh, so she I heard her in a podcast uh interview a number of years ago and she describes how, whenever she notices that the overwhelm of, of that position, being at the helm of a, of a ship like Avanade is is threatening to overwhelm her, maybe and she notices it in little things, like her desk got really messy or she's taking shallow breaths Whatever she is doing, unless she's like in a really important meeting, she will leave her desk. She works in London. She'll go down by the river and she'll sit on a bench and she'll just watch the river, ruthless and there's always a million things, high stakes things that she has to do, but she insists on that because she knows that the entire company, if she starts to go under mentally, emotionally, physically, with regard to her own nervous system, bad things are going to happen. And so I would encourage people in any leadership. Things are going to happen, and so I would encourage people in any leadership, but especially at the top levels of leadership. That phrase, ruthless self-care and self-compassion own it and do it.

Speaker 4:

That was a strong finish. Now, yeah, that's awesome. I want to say that was amazing. At this point in the podcast we usually pause and say you know we have a couple of questions floating around, but then pause and just say you know, as you lean back, andrea, is there something that you really want to share that you feel you haven't covered yet, like, is there something like a?

Speaker 1:

so one of the reasons that I talk about compassion and self-compassion is because I needed a lot in my life. Like life is not easy, right, folks?

Speaker 1:

it's not easy to throw stuff at us. And it's interesting. I'm actually in a moment right now in my life where I've had some really tough things happen in my extended family and very painful things right now. And you know, my book is launching and I've got all this speaking happening in October and I'm on all these podcasts and I'm just like, how am I going to do these things with this hugely painful thing going on in my family? And it's so interesting how the universe or spirit or God will present opportunities to you where you absolutely have to practice what you preach.

Speaker 1:

And I have been insisting on ruthless self-care and I have been putting my hand on my heart and saying, of course, sweetheart, of course you need to just not work today. It's too hard, it's too heavy, and I've also been needing to trust myself more. I did almost zero preparation for this podcast y'all and I feel like I was just like, well, I'll show up as I am. It's been a tough day, but here let's go and look, we've had an amazing conversation. And so, for everybody who is really dealing with something hard right now, I want you, I want to give you permission to step back and take care of yourself. And then also the most important thing that you need to do to keep the all the plates spinning in your life is just show up and be you and it's okay, it's going to be okay, you. You can have painful things happening and still show up and and things.

Speaker 3:

Things can carry on, oh yeah the thank you for your presence with us, thank you for your the thank you for the ways that you hold light, um, even as you're mentioning hardness or darkness in your own life. Like I said, you have made some very heady work very accessible, and it's just beautiful to meet someone that's also practicing what you're preaching and seeking to live, and we just feel honored to almost come alongside you, cheer for you in the publication of your book, but also the important work that's bringing healing to so many people and healing to their families. Thank, you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you. What an honor. I loved this conversation. Thank you for the questions and for your presences as well. I'm walking away just feeling joyful, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Any final thoughts? Brian and Linda, or Andrea, I know we're right exactly at time here.

Speaker 3:

We just want to keep you.

Speaker 4:

This has been great.

Speaker 3:

You're so lovely, you're so lovely.

Speaker 4:

Accessible. That's the thing. You're tapping into areas.

Speaker 4:

This will not be in the podcast yeah, we're tapping into areas that I've done a lot of reading and a lot of research, almost a decade of and to hear you break down some of these complex, some of these complexities of neurological structure and emotional function into bits and pieces that people can pocket, that's a good work, and so I find myself very drawn towards the people that do the hard work making the intellectual slash, academic slash, applicable to people that are actually wrestling and struggling with it. Those people that are wrestling and struggling don't have the time to unpack the complexity for themselves. They need the simple, and what you're doing is you're delivering that and um it. It sounds that's the wrong way of saying it, but it's it. It sounds tested, um and tempered, uh, cause sometimes people test it, they don't temper what they're, what they've tested, and I feel that you have adapted what you've practiced so that people can understand it. That's not a short bridge, and so I recognize that Um and I've not read your book, but if you're.

Speaker 4:

If your book reads like that um, that's killer, killer in a good way. The um, what you're welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, Brian. That means the world. That means the world coming from you. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Andrea, thank you so much again for being a guest on the podcast. It was really fun to chat with you and hear learn a little bit more about your book, but also hear about how your some of your research and practice has all kind of come together in this book and to provide this resource for uh, for leaders, for individuals, for really anyone who um wants to get get healthier and use compassion more to their advantage, both personally and professionally. Um, I don't know if you noticed, but I got to ask one question on the podcast, uh, because Brian and Linda just it just flowed and went so fast. But I had a lot more questions and so I edited this out. But we're going to perhaps do another follow-up with her, just because there's a lot to dig into.

Speaker 2:

But, dear listener, I would encourage you to go out and get the book, read the book for yourself. You can find it on her website, hollingsworthconsultingcom. There's a link in the show note. There's also a direct link to buy the book. She also has a few other resources on that website as well, but I think that you'll find it really valuable and very interesting. So, thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture For more resources, about growing your strengths the strengths of your team or the strengths of your entire organization. You can click the link in the show notes with a link to Andrea's book and a link to our website, leadershipvisionconsultingcom. We'd appreciate it if you could leave us a review, subscribe whatever other sort of notification to tell you when new episodes come out. We also have a free email newsletter that offers weekly insights and tips and thoughts around strengths, around leadership and around building positive team culture. My name is Nathan Friberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.