The Leadership Vision Podcast

Exploring Themes for Effective Cultural Change in Organizations

• Nathan Freeburg • Season 7 • Episode 40

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In this episode of the Leadership Vision podcast, hosts Nathan Freeburg, Brian Schubring, and Dr. Linda Schubring discuss how recurring themes in leadership and team structures can shape cultural change within organizations. Drawing from their experience with a particular leadership team, they explore nine universal themes—climate, optimism, investment, vision, buy-in, accountability, mission, and leadership's role. They emphasize identifying and capitalizing on positive changes to accelerate organizational transformation. The conversation also highlights the importance of understanding an organization's climate, fostering optimism, investing in leadership at all levels, ensuring strong alignment with mission and vision, and maintaining clear accountability. The episode aims to provide listeners with insights to enhance their own team dynamics and leadership practices.

00:33 Themes for Shaping Cultural Change
00:44 Podcast Introduction and Host Greetings
02:00 Client Themes Overview
03:07 Role of Executive Leadership
03:27 Identifying Positive Organizational Themes
05:41 Theme 1: Climate
09:50 Theme 2: Optimism and Investment
11:57 Theme 3: Vision and Buy-In
14:01 Theme 4: Accountability and Mission
18:42 Role of Leadership in Organizational Change
21:41 Summarizing Key Takeaways
25:29 Conclusion and Farewell

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Speaker 1:

Brian, what are we talking about?

Speaker 2:

here today. So the genesis for this topic today actually happened when we were working with a specific leadership team, and what's unique about this leadership team is that we often do work several days, several consecutive days in a row, prior to meeting with the executive leadership team, and one of the tasks that we're charged with is to give a summary of the overarching themes of the days of work that we've done, and usually this happens in a 90 minute session that we have with the executive leadership team. And today what we want to do is kind of step back and ask ourselves what are some of those themes that tend to be really effective in shaping cultural change.

Speaker 1:

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and, as Brian said there in the intro, we are going to be talking about some of the themes that we have learned from working with a recent client, and instead of telling you any more, let's just jump right into this. You can learn more about who we are at Leadership Vision at leadershipvisionconsultingcom, and for more info about this conversation and some of our other resources, you can visit the link in the show notes or go on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. All right, let's jump into it. Hello Brian and Linda, how are you today?

Speaker 3:

Hi, hey, great, hi, great, so good to see you so good to see you.

Speaker 2:

How are you today?

Speaker 1:

I am wonderful. I have a couple of sick children at home today that aren't really sick, but they might wander in here and then we're going to have to pause, but I'm going to edit it in such a way that nobody will ever know. We'll just leave it in there, It'll be. It'll be cute Head bopping around in the background.

Speaker 1:

It'll be some sort of I don't know fodder for a previous or for not a previous, but for a future podcast episode. But this podcast that we're going to be talking about here today, that Brian so eloquently introduced for us, is essentially themes from a client and we don't need to really talk about the client. The themes we've discussed are pretty universal, I think, and there's nine of them here, and I think what I'm excited to just learn about these are how did you discover these themes? What do these themes mean? What is the applicability of these themes for another leadership team?

Speaker 1:

And one of the things that you said when we were planning this out was how, when you're working out with this client and often consultants in general are you know they focus on well, here's what's wrong, here's this. You know issue here and issue here and issue here. And what the two of you did with this client is you really wanted to focus on what's going well and how do we capitalize and focus on that? So, as listener, as you're listening to this today, I want you to think about these nine things and how, how are each of these areas going in in your neck of the woods, in your, on your team, in your business?

Speaker 2:

One of the roles that we play with this executive leadership team is that we are informing the leadership team on what is happening within the organization as we're going through these consecutive days of work. We're being exposed to hundreds of people during the course of our work, and what we're listening for are what are some of the concerns, what are some of the opportunities, what are some of the areas of development, what are some of the observations these people are making about the changes that are happening in the organization, and what we're listening for is what is going well. What are some of the themes that people are saying over and over again about the positive change that's happening within the organizational culture.

Speaker 3:

Knowing that many organizations right now have a huge challenge ahead of them. Now you can fill in the blank with whatever challenge it is, but that challenge requires change, so that you don't do the definition of insanity where you're trying to fix a problem with the same thinking that got you into that issue. And so when we're looking at organizations and we're noticing the challenges and the changes that maybe they're clicking along, doing great, and all of a sudden some big happens or there's a change in leadership, or there's a change in funding, or there's a change in focus or vision, um, we're we're trying to stir all that up and to pay attention to what the song is beneath the words. And then that's where Brian and I, in our work with individuals, with small teams or larger teams, we are seeking to detect the themes and name them.

Speaker 2:

And when you name the themes of positive change that are already happening in the organization and then you ask a leadership team to reemphasize and amplify those themes, you're actually creating more momentum to the momentum that's already happening there. And that's why we believe these themes can act as an accelerant to organizational change, because we're identifying the momentum and the motion that's already happening, identifying it to a leadership team so they can provide accelerants to that and create the type of organizational change that they're looking for.

Speaker 1:

Brian, I like the idea of momentum because sometimes when we look at something that is not the way that we want it, it looks like a very steep hill to climb to get it the way that we want it. So just thinking about, like, with each of these themes, like it's about building momentum, it's about, you know, eating an elephant, one bite at a time, which is something we talked about in a previous episode it's just like starting something. So, with that in mind, these themes here and we'll see if we combine a few, but the first one is climate. What is the climate like of your organization? And this was a bit of a keystone here in unlocking some larger discussions around these themes. So talk about climate. What does it mean? What did you learn? What can our listeners take from it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'll start with the definition of climate, and that is how people feel about the culture.

Speaker 1:

Hmm, it's the cultural climate and that is how people feel about the culture Right.

Speaker 3:

So that's climate, yeah, so so what is it so like? Oh well, I feel good about it. I feel hopeful, and oftentimes, when we are paying attention to what the climate is in an organization so we know what levers to push to promote a more positive team culture what we're realizing is that this organization was on an upward trend.

Speaker 2:

An upward trend where people were more hopeful and positive about the culture and what was key about this upward trend is that individuals within the organization were recalling their own institutional memory of when the organization had upward trends in the past, when they had downward trends in the past and when they were kind of stagnant. And that was important because the veterans in the organization were able to then instill this sense of energy, optimism and hope that the organization was on an upward trend, things were changing and it was changing in a positive direction. Then people wanted to be involved in that. So asking ourselves, what is the cultural climate that's happening right now? It's a very important question for leadership teams to ask.

Speaker 3:

So the theme was an answer to how people are feeling about the culture. So the theme was paying attention to where your climate is at.

Speaker 1:

And when you were asking these questions, did you get responses all over the board? I imagine that's a tricky one. And then, as a leader, what do you? Or as a consultant, what do you do with that? Do you take that information back to a leader and say some people love it, some people don't?

Speaker 3:

This is how I look at it, especially since I've learned more, a little bit more, about chat, gpt. And we don't do this. But this is kind of what happens, I think, because of how Brian and I are wired, because we have this bent to find meaning, to name themes, to notice our surroundings in some different ways, how we're interacting with people, we're really trying to see what's at the heart, what they're passionate about, what they're curious about, where their pressure points are, who are some of the people that are exciting to them, who are draining their battery, all the opportunities, all the different challenges. And if you would record not just what we're hearing but what we're thinking about through the course of the week and you drop it in a chat GPT, what you will get is these themes that we were listening for so rarely, is it okay? Number one, how optimistic do you feel? Rather, we are sifting through and allowing some of the themes to catch us right your real grounded theory approach, would you add.

Speaker 3:

I would. How would you say how these themes emerge? How do you pay attention to them?

Speaker 2:

We're listening and we're observing in all of the different engagements we're involved in over the course of a day. At the end of the day, linda and I typically ask ourselves what are we hearing? And somewhere or another we're asking that question what are some of the themes that we're hearing over and over again? It's just part of our work and what we noticed was there was overwhelming optimism. People were naming what was happening around them and we're just having this conversation over the course of many days and I take notes as the week is going on, to see which themes are getting more traction, which themes that we're hearing more, and then changing as we need to. But it's coming, but the themes are emerging from the conversations and the work that we're doing with individuals and teams, and for a theme to make it on this list, we have to hear it repeatedly over time from various individuals, day after day.

Speaker 1:

It's not just one or two times it comes up, it's not the outliers, it is. This is what's going on, sure, yeah. So let's move on to the next two. We're going to combine the themes of optimism and investment. Talk a little bit about that. What do they mean? How do they fit into this conversation?

Speaker 2:

Well, optimism was. There was an optimistic energy. It was a cautious optimism because, like you said earlier, people were recognizing that there was this shift in climate. One of the few vocabulary words that people were using was that they were feeling safe. They felt a sense of belonging. I think that part of that was the third theme, and that was people were being invested in. People noticed that there was investment being made in mid-level leaders, which was new to the organization.

Speaker 3:

And investment in all kinds of leaders, not just the mid-level. So people were noticing oh, this work is for everybody and we were representative of an organization making an investment and what we were trying to do is help the sustainability where people are investing in themselves and each other.

Speaker 2:

What I think was a byproduct of this investment was this organization happens to have those conference rooms and offices with glass walls. So as we were working there, people were walking by all the time. So people were seeing that there was investment taking place. They were seeing the teams that we were working with, that these were mid-level leaders and team leaders. They were also seeing us work with different levels of employment, from people that were, you know, had never had training before to people that had training over and over again. So the investment was, coincidentally, on display for anyone to see over the course of an eight to 10 hour day.

Speaker 1:

So I think the takeaway maybe from these two to ask about your own organization is what is the level of optimism here Glass half full, glass empty, maybe sort of energy vibe there? And what level of investment are we making into our people? Do we need more? Probably, not less. I can't imagine any organizations like, yeah, we're investing too much into these people. The next two vision and buy-in. Tell us about those themes, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Vision Well with vision. What we noticed was in this organization, vision seems to get more refined year after year. The leadership team relies on vision being clearly messaged and the expectation is that the leadership team carries that vision forward. What was different in this round of work was that there was a greater receptivity of the organizational vision from the team members that we were talking to. It wasn't just leaders that were buying into the vision. It was these team members and mid-level leaders that were embracing and embodying the vision more than we had seen in the past.

Speaker 3:

And that showed us buy-in right, which was another theme that we were noticing, because in that vision, they were able each person that we talked to was able to articulate it and it wasn't um, it wasn't cause they went through brand messaging training and they would learn to say you know just do it or whatever it is.

Speaker 3:

Um, they, they. They were saying using their language. They were saying, like, what the organization was about, where they're headed. They were saying, like what the organization was about, where they're headed, what is important to them. And that showed not only that vision was clear, like there was a horizon this organization was moving to, but buy-in was there because people got on the bus and it started to roll.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I like these two. And I think you know the takeaway for listeners is is your vision clear, articulate? Do people understand it? But then, are they bought into it? Is there a buy-in? Are they actually living it out and implementing it? It's one thing to be able to recite your team's vision or mission statement, but then it's another thing like, well, what are you doing towards that? Oh, nothing. I think it's dumb, right. So how do you continue to do that? And I can't remember I don't know if it's Patrick Lencioni or some some leader said the vision leaks, and so there's this constant need to have to re, re say it. Make sure people understand as new people come in. How are you bought in the next two here, accountability and mission, and I'm curious if this is sort of like a, a second part of that vision and buy-in, or how it connects to the rest, the rest of these themes here A little bit, but not really.

Speaker 2:

This is where there's a little twist in this, because when we shared with the leadership team that accountability was a theme that emerged through the week, they assumed that it was people wanting to be accountable to whatever it is that the vision was asking of them. But this was a little bit different. People were asking for organizational accountability. So they were asking for something much greater than what we had originally thought, like how are we, as an organization, going to be acting in a way that aligns with the vision? How are we going to be accountable to holding the same message? How are we, as an organization, going to increase our expectations or understand our expectations with greater clarity? So it was a different kind of accountability of like well, now let's make this happen and how are we going to ensure that it can?

Speaker 3:

When an organization is getting accountability right, you will hear a lot more. We language. We're doing this, when accountability is struggling, there's a sense of, well, they didn't do this and this didn't happen, and I can't believe, and whatever. So we were hearing this, we're in this together. I bought in, I see the vision and I want to be a part of which is the next one preserving some of the mission as well as extending our reach of the mission, and why we're here and doing this work in the first place.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the theme of mission was interesting as well, because when you're asking an organization to go through significant change, sometimes people worry that we're going to lose what we're actually there to do. And what kept coming up over and over again was that people were understanding that the certainty of the mission wasn't changing, that they were there to serve the constituents and that was important to the leadership and sometimes leadership teams. Sometimes, while they're focusing on the change, they may lose track of the impact that change has on their constituents. And in this organization that wasn't happening. The mission was certain and the constituency base was attended to.

Speaker 1:

I'm wanting to make a connection between accountability and buy-in. The more bought-in people are, the more willing they'll be to be accountable to things, to take ownership in things. And I don't know if this is a tangent or a side train of thought here, but to create that, to get people aligned to say to create that, to get people aligned to say, yes, I'm taking charge of this thing, this is mine. If it goes well or doesn't go well, it's on me to make sure this connects back to the vision and the mission and all of that. I don't even know what I'm asking. Is there a way to help people in that or to does that make sense? I'm not sure what I'm asking here, other than how do you get people to be accountable for things that are hard?

Speaker 2:

Well that's the difference with this one, nathan, is that they weren't asking for accountability, like you were saying it was a bigger question. Asking for accountability, like you were saying it was a bigger question, how are we all going to be accountable, or?

Speaker 3:

how do our behaviors?

Speaker 2:

demonstrate that we're accountable? How does our messaging demonstrate that we're accountable? How are our shared expectations demonstrating that we're accountable to the vision?

Speaker 1:

that we're bought into.

Speaker 3:

Okay so there was more like what Linda was saying earlier, there's a more of this.

Speaker 2:

We, this collective engagement, how are we going to be accountable to something bigger? And that was what was different is it wasn't saying, hey, hold me accountable.

Speaker 3:

It was weak For example, there was someone that had been there for a long time and made some comment, and it was a peer that just said hey, we don't talk like that anymore. And it was the. It's the week, right, we don't talk about that anymore. This is what. And they weren't saying this. But this is what it means to buy in, this is what it means to be a team member, this is what it means to be a leader at the, in this organization, and we're not tolerating that behavior, because to tolerate it, then we have a, you know, less optimism and a darker climate. Yeah, Interesting.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that that makes sense. I'm wondering how all of this ties back into leadership or whoever the ultimate, uh, leaders at the top, which is our last theme here, and I know that this was in relation to a very specific leader with this particular team. But maybe use some of those examples but then speak more broadly about the leader's role or the leader's job, or just the role the leader can play to help all of these things happen. That's, that's a pretty big question and a large swing here.

Speaker 3:

There are some time well, I believe this. There are some times that leaders are like step into a situation just because they're the best leader for that time.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

And you know they have good skillsets. There's some people that they love to disrupt and then move on. There are some people that love to stabilize and operationalize and, um, leave it. Leave it. Better that way.

Speaker 2:

Uh.

Speaker 3:

I've also heard the adage. You know, the speed of the leader is the speed of the team. So whatever the leader's doing, there's a sense of that.

Speaker 3:

You know, that's what happens with the team and, um, when I think about that, what we were realizing is there was a leader we were working with that had been organization was noting that this leader was leading in a more, maybe vulnerable, way. Or one of the things that we learned was they were noting members of the organization were noting that this leader was focusing more on connection before content.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I like that Right before content oh, I like that.

Speaker 3:

Right, and so, whatever a leader is known for, there's times when, just by showing up and putting an emphasis on the individual or the human, or the people in the leadership team that are family members and they are part of other kinds of volunteer groups and organizations, that it is important that there's a connection made between people. Before just chewing through all the content and um, that was a theme that that we always note like what is the speed? Speed?

Speaker 1:

of the team.

Speaker 3:

How does it connect to the speed of the leader? Um, what are we noting? And what we witnessed was a, an entire organization prioritizing for bits of time, connection over content or connection before content. We were noticing, we were noticing connection before content. We were noticing connection before content.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is good. So if you had to I hate to do this, but distill all this down into the chat GPT version of this how would you summarize these? I think there was seven or nine things, depending on how you counted them. How do you summarize all these things into a statement or a takeaway? Or? You know listeners who are thinking about these things, maybe something swirling in their head like what can I do to implement something like this in my organization today? What would you say? Both of you get a shot at this.

Speaker 1:

Let's see who does the best chat?

Speaker 3:

GPT impression building a positive team culture and navigating the adaptive challenges of organizations is not for the faint of heart. As you're going about the complex work of leading with people, among people, people, there is an opportunity to step back and wonder are you creating generative organizations that are generating life and energy? And when things aren't going well, how do you take stock and help bring it back to goodness and, eventually, excellence?

Speaker 1:

I like it.

Speaker 3:

So themes are important yeah.

Speaker 1:

Brian, do you want to take a crack at that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, naming themes of organizational change, fosters an environment curated by adaptive leaders to, additionally and furthermore, those are our band words. Okay, oh, I see what you're doing. You did chat GPT.

Speaker 1:

Like.

Speaker 2:

I saw the words we can't foster.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah Additionally. And so on Furthermore that's all right, that's right.

Speaker 2:

Naming the recurring themes of organizational change is beneficial for the entire organization because it helps individuals align with the organization's intentions while maintaining consistency that people's needs are actually being met.

Speaker 3:

Oh, he wins.

Speaker 1:

I like it. It's not a competition. I like it.

Speaker 3:

You said you, you said which one is the best.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's true.

Speaker 3:

We're listening.

Speaker 1:

I just said it faster yeah, I was thinking about it. It faster yeah, you had a lot of time to think about it. I was thinking about it the whole time. He did have a lot of time to think about it.

Speaker 2:

Including the funny part about being ChatGPT curating, fostering, additionally furthermore, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 1:

Do you want to hear what ChatGPT did say about this? Yeah, because I saw you all of our notes and I said summarize all of these ideas into a simple statement.

Speaker 2:

And then I said you should have told me that.

Speaker 1:

Remove references to the specific client and then give me another one. And then I said turn it into a shorter statement that can be applied to any organization and help them achieve their goals. Pretty generic, and that said, to achieve organizational goals, focus on fostering optimism and belonging. Invest in mid-level leadership. Ensure team buy-in and maintain alignment with your mission. Prioritize well-being and connection through open communication, collaboration and a supportive environment. Keep accountability clear and ensure leadership is personal, intentional and focused on both individual and collective growth and you said short.

Speaker 2:

I know it wasn't as short as I.

Speaker 1:

It was a lot shorter than it was. That's why it makes it sound so easy, doesn't it?

Speaker 3:

but I think we all know it's not even close to.

Speaker 1:

Even if you find the themes, it's not easy. No, all it's not even close to being easy, Even if you find the themes. It's not easy. No.

Speaker 3:

Because the real work of leadership is trying to do something with those themes that can improve people's lives and operational excellence.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Well, brian and Linda, thank you. This was fun, thank you.

Speaker 3:

It was fun.

Speaker 1:

We haven't done something like this quite before, so I appreciate it and thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you found value from this episode or any of our other resources, we would love it. If you could subscribe to the podcast, join our free email newsletter or, more importantly, share this with someone that you think might benefit from these topics and any of our other resources. You can click the link in the show notes to find out all about those. My name is Nathan Freeberg.

Speaker 3:

I'm Linda Shubring. I'm Brian Shubring.

Speaker 1:

And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.