The Leadership Vision Podcast
The Leadership Vision Podcast is about helping people better understand who they are as a leader. Our consulting firm has spent 25 years investing in teams so that people are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. Our podcast provides information to help you develop as a leader, build a positive team culture, and grow your organization to match the demands of today’s business landscape. We leverage client experience, research-based leadership models, and reflective conversations to explore personal growth and leadership topics. With over 350,000 downloads from 180+ countries, our podcast shares our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture.
The Leadership Vision Podcast
Playing The Integrity Game with Jeff Klubeck
What does it really mean to live and lead with integrity? In this episode of The Leadership Vision Podcast, we sit down with Jeff Klubeck, speaker, coach, and author of The Integrity Game. Jeff shares his journey from humble beginnings to building a career in coaching, training, and leadership development. He breaks down his 10-point model for integrity, explains how accountability plays a crucial role in leadership and offers actionable insights on aligning values with behavior.
Whether you're a leader, a team member, or simply striving for personal growth, this conversation will challenge you to reflect on who you are, what you stand for, and how you show up in the world.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why integrity is more than just "doing what you say"—it’s about why you say it
✅ The link between integrity, accountability, and leadership
✅ How to create a safe space for accountability in your team and organization
✅ A real-world example of how integrity transformed a law firm
✅ How to keep growing in integrity—without beating yourself up over setbacks
Resources & Links:
📖 Learn more about Jeff and The Integrity Game
🌎 Connect with Leadership Vision: leadershipvisionconsulting.com
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Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Leadership Vision Online
ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
But let's just say we all do a thousand things a day. All I'm trying to do is increase the number of those that are integrated with each other and our answers right. So to be silly about it, because I'm using Trojan horse all the time, right, you guys have heard it said if we are not learning or if we are not growing, we're dying. So I'm here to say if we're not integrating, we might be disintegrating.
Speaker 2:You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about us, you can visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom or click the link in the show notes. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and today on the podcast, we have a fascinating conversation with Jeff Klubeck, a speaker, coach and the author of the Integrity Game. Jeff helps individuals and teams strengthen their accountability, leadership and personal growth by aligning actions with values. He also has a weekly live stream where he talks about all things business, leadership and more. That, I think, is really great, and you can find all of that at theintegritygamecom or again from the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Our conversation here today explores what integrity really means, how to create a culture of accountability and why self-reflection is key to success. Now, Jeff is a lot of things and this was a really fun conversation, but he describes himself as energetic, fast-paced, humor-laced and a little in-your-face. So let's get started. I gotta be honest, I'm a little bit not sure where we start because initially, when your people reached out, I was like, oh yeah, integrity game. We can talk about integrity so much.
Speaker 2:It's one of those buzzwords that people don't entirely know what to talk about. But then I was like, well, I don't, maybe we just talk about baseball, because I'm a big baseball guy. And then the more I kind of got into your work of you know, Linda and I both worked at a college for many years and then, you know, taught some classes, all that stuff. I think what I would like to do is to start this is just tell us who you are, maybe in kind of a Cliff Notes version. Who are you and how did you get to where you are today? Being someone that is teaching people about business, about leadership, about you know all things, integrity and kloobie snacks and wherever that fits in, and just kind of you know you I saw you have a video on your elevator pitch, so just give us your elevator pitch about who jeff is.
Speaker 1:Well, to, that's from going up or which building. You know, like it's, it's true, right, it differs, that's a good, and either you're touching upon, like the balance that I have in my professional life these days, totally. Who am I and how do I describe? How do I avoid the curse of knowledge, which is being so familiar with what I do that I forgot what it's like not to know? And so how do I make sure I encode it in a way that lands to the audience instead of just the audience, instead of the audience?
Speaker 1:That's a fun challenge that I'm wrestling with all the time. Who's Jeff? I'm my wife's husband.
Speaker 1:I'm Marianne's husband I wake up man, how did I get here? I wake up every day and I figure out how I'm going to deserve my wife and kids. So that's it. I start there and next thing I know I'm out of bed helping people. And I got a lot of help when I was growing up. My parents, they loved each other but they didn't go to college, they didn't have success in your career or business, they struggled. They, you know they loved each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm kind of a self-made guy. I got some help when I got to college. You know, I had to deliver pizzas and I had two jobs and I would go home every other weekend and I, you know, I'm self-made. You know I used to survive on six pieces of bread. You know, mustard sandwich of the morning and the afternoon and the evening sandwich of the morning and the afternoon and the evening.
Speaker 1:Right, but I say that, you know, with with humor and great gratitude because, like, whatever mom and dad did, they, they had me fighting, they had me on the continuum of mental disease and more on the neurotic side than the character disorders that you know I'd maybe take too much responsibility for things. That not enough, right? Well, you know, I went to college and I was the first person to go to college and I was on my own for the first time and you know I didn't have. I had to work. I didn't make it happen. Mom and dad, we don't have any money for you. So I did like I thought I was going to drop out and the mentors on campus sent me money to stay in school. And I'm built on gratitude. Who am I? I'm this grateful dude. That's cool. I love that. I'm like really like I cry, I get emotional, I get overcome with gratitude, like how did I get here? Pinch me, right? So how did Marianne say yes? How are my kids so amazing? So I got a lot to be grateful for and I got a lot of that.
Speaker 1:You know, epicenter, san Diego State University that's where I grew up, where I learned how to be a student, I learned how to figure it out, I got the mentoring I needed, and so to be back at San Diego State at this stage of my life is like full circle stuff. It's amazing. I started your bachelor's, master's, I started teaching while I was getting my master's degree. Lo and behold, I was good at it.
Speaker 1:You're teaching public speaking also right. So it's like they don't want to be there. They have to be there. It's general ed right, they're, they're terrified and they're you know. So you're not just teaching a class, but you're like connecting with people and helping them ease their fears and teaching them how to finish what they start and showing them that you believe in them. And it's, it's, it's way hyper. Now that I've got all of my personal profession growth chops under my belt, went back in the classroom as a mature father of three. Then, when I was a grad student, stressed out trying to make my thesis Totally different experience right, but I taught all the way through. I was referred to in the community college district and so, while I was building my career as a headhunter and an internal recruiter, and then I don't know what I want to do because we started to build a family Mary Ann, you go work, I'll figure it out. I got a real estate license.
Speaker 1:I formed a C Corp, I made the clip art business card with the dude holding a light bulb need some ideas, and I just put on a real estate costume and started talking it up and figuring out how to make it happen. I thought I'd be a consultant, right. And so I met a title rep at a real estate event. He's like oh, you're a coach. And I postured Wow, the card says consultants. I'd be like $0 and 0 cents as a consultant Right.
Speaker 1:So that's why I have a lot of admiration for what you guys do at leadership, vision consulting, like the whole management consulting for corporates, larger organizations. But I went into it like what's a coach.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? What's coaching? Tell me about that. Oh, you know motivation and goal setting and tell me more. And I thought, hey, if I learned this coaching piece and, by the way, I was in real estate circles nobody's hiring consultants, but they're hiring coaches, right? Top performers, top producers, sales professionals all the hands in the real estate cookie jar mortgage. You know, real estate, home finance, estate planning, financial advisors you know they all got their hands on the real estate transaction cookie jar right. So I learned how to coach and to cut my teeth and then I was better in the classroom because of it and I was better coached because of the classroom.
Speaker 1:And then I realized coaching was a little bit limiting. So you got to expand to consulting and training and I teach public speaking so I'm a pretty good speaker for hire. I could train other speakers and dabbled in seminar industry a little bit. I was like the coach that would get assigned to these entrepreneurs that were investing in you know speak on stage for 15 minutes and I'd go out and get them ready and I facilitate at business retreat and personal growth and business development, wealth building through small business ownership, real estate. Covid hit started writing books to support what I'm doing Now, like when I introduce my stuff. I play around and say I'm a soft skills guy, soft skills for strong leaders, soft skills for strong teams, soft skills for strong organizations. But I'm an empath, I'm energetic, I'm fast-paced, humor-laced, little in your face.
Speaker 1:I like that I like it, yeah, and so for me, it's like when I learned accountability. What is accountability? What's the willingness to be counted? How do you deliver accountability in a way that keeps people engaged? How do you confront people that are adults like? How do we shape the path? Grease the skids, ease the process, make it fun and easy to look within? How do we promote self-responsibility? All things I want in my own life, yeah, you follow. I really really put the accountability training. So I consider myself world-class in terms of accountability, coaching and delivering non-threatening accountability framework and so forth. And the integrity game is a 10-point model that allows you to deliver services coaching, consulting, training but it's really based, it's been born, in the land of accountability. Okay, here's 10 points treat these as questions, answer these questions, share your answers with me and that's what you're accountable for your answers. So that's cool. That's a lot in terms of who are you, but I thought I'd show you the art is your?
Speaker 2:is your, are you luke to terry, like from from the characters from your book, like, yeah, is that a little based on your life, of the kind of-.
Speaker 1:I don't have a long-winded answer to that one yes, okay, you know the idea of the parable, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally it's like, hey, let's put a mentor, let's put a mentee. But also from a business perspective, I'm introducing the integrity game to the marketplace Like it used to be get a clue, my business, get a clue Inc. My business, getaclue Inc. Yeah, it's limiting, right, that's just me. Nobody wants to be a GetAClue coach. But if they want to be an integrity and certified coach, maybe I can build a firm, maybe I can build a stable of independently contracted subject maker experts that we can help each other go after bigger projects rather than either of us alone. I have a lot of admiration for that, but not only me, as Terry baseball player is based on my son, so tj aj okay, the cotton candy, cotton candy fails, girl right yeah she's ali, ali, ali, ali.
Speaker 1:My daughter is addy. Yeah, and at the end of the the book, when they get to the charity event and they're raising money for challenged athletes, you, you know Dr. What's his name?
Speaker 2:Dr Nate, but his nickname's.
Speaker 1:Bubba, after our youngest, brody, okay. And then Luke the hot dog vendor the wayward hot dog vendor who Terry takes on the journey to introduce the 10 points on the model. I think we can all identify with Luke Totally. You know, there's a little bit of Luke in all of us, right? Yeah, so here I am. I'm paying homage to my kids. I started working on the book after my parents passed away three weeks apart, during pre-vax COVID September of 2020. But a month prior is when I gave the Integrity Game keynote. I was referred to the Special Key Advertising Association of California. I just threw the Integrity Game on there in the list of topics just to make the list look sexier.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 1:I said what's this integrity game thing? I'm like, oh, now I got to create a keynote around it and that's when all of my ideas about integrity, or be your word, or what is integrity Wait, hang on, do what you say you're going to do, that's enough. Why did you say you're going to do it? So I'm playing with the transformational versus transactional integrity. Transactional integrity do what you say you're going to do. But transformational is why just say you're going to do it? What's your purpose, what are your gifts, what's your potential? So are we willing to be counted on all of these things? Right and so, anyway, it came together and shortly I delivered the keynote, virtually. I recorded it in the hotel room down the street from a dying parent's house. It was, it was a, it was, it was an interesting time. So I just thought, wow, this, the keynote goes. Cool. I got this 10 point model.
Speaker 1:Now, if I put an intro and a conclusion, it's a book. Oh, how about I write a parable book which mentor will take the mentee through? That introduces the 10 points that now I can infuse it with characters. You know, infuse the characters, yep. So now it's like became a, a real passion project and a therapeutic project and a legacy play that also introduces my 10-point model that I'm trying to build my brand around now. Like everything's multi-determined right, there's never more reasons you have for doing something, the more likely you are to follow through. So I had a lot of reasons to do the integrity game, some of which I haven't even figured out yet as I watch it incubate and grow.
Speaker 3:So first of, all sorry about your folks and you as well.
Speaker 1:You took something and made it a gift and a legacy to others. Yeah, it resonated with your share earlier, so Jeff when you're talking about accountability.
Speaker 4:I was hearing like a personal thread that was running through that, like from your own story. Do you have that same personal thread of integrity where integrity was a theme for you as you were coming up, or was integrity a part of what you were learning through being accountable?
Speaker 1:Yes and yes and yes. It's a multi-determined. Yes and yes and yes. It's multi-determined. It's easy to be baffled with over pre-accountability days. Golly. I wish I had some mentoring.
Speaker 2:I wish I had some guidance.
Speaker 1:I wish my parents had knocked some sense into me or actually punished me for some of my transgressions. I could talk my way in and out of anything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, right, okay yeah.
Speaker 1:And I got away with a lot. And, looking back, I did a lot. You know I got caught a lot too, but I did a lot of embarrassing stuff and I mentoring I didn't. Okay, you follow them. We judge ourselves by it. We judge ourselves by intents, you know, and the rest of the world's judging our behavior, yeah, right, right. So when I finally got mature enough to look within and and question my own behavior and thought like, hey, who am I being? Right now that I'm, you know, like it's starting to look within and starting to take responsibility for any challenge I was having, starting to take you like, what's my role in this? What's going on here? Who am I being? What am I? Well, it was eye open to get into personal profession with myself jeff the word integrity.
Speaker 4:It's one of those words where um, I think it's a reactive word like people have a reaction to the word and so, like you know, there are some words that we use in consulting which we know is an emotional draw it's drawing people in. And what I also find is that there are some words that we use in consulting which we know is an emotional draw, it's drawing people in. And what I also find is that there's words that you might not say initially because it's a reaction that people will get. When you bring up integrity in a corporate environment, do you find that you then have to spend some time creating a safe space for people to talk about the need and what's that like for you then?
Speaker 1:How's that sound? It's, it's, it's layered. First of all, thank you, cause I'm going to get into character now. I'm like, thank you into my imaginary keynote, mike, you'll be in the audience with me, right, and I'll show you. But it's layered Right Because, yeah, integrity.
Speaker 1:There is an emotional reaction to it because, well, there's two sides to that coin, and I'm going to show you what I mean by that in a second. Let's pin that on the board. But secondly, integrity game is creating the safe space for this other thing called accountability. Right, do you follow? So the thing that people really had a problem with is accountability. So imagine if I said like now let's get into the keynote, right. It goes a little something like this Now let's get into the keynote, right. It goes a little something like this All right, here we go, ready to play the integrity game. How many of you believe you have integrity? All the hands go up. There's an emotional reaction. I want to associate myself with integrity. That's one side of this emotional reaction. Okay, now back to safe space.
Speaker 1:Humor is a Trojan horse, fast-paced humor, laced in your face, a little in your face, all right, hang on. Oh, left hand, I'm sorry for those of you that raised your left, switch to your right and keep your hands up and repeat after me. I, I do do solemnly swear, swear, not to shoot the messenger in 35 minutes when the keynote's over. I get the laugh right. Hang on, I want to be invited back. So I'm not trying to offend you guys and say that you don't have any integrity. So let's make sure we're talking about the same thing.
Speaker 2:Now, that's where I pause the key and I start to get illicit audience response.
Speaker 1:To get the audience, I get an anchor on the left side of the room. I get an anchor on the right side of the room. I get them to declare and now, brian, here's what I think you're going to like about this. Right, it's the other side of the emotional reaction. Hang on. When I asked them what it is, they've immediately it's amazing. They've immediately gone from oh, I have it, I have it, I have it, it's great, it's wonderful. And I said, well, hang on a second, what is it? You and your word? Are you not doing the right thing? And all of a sudden they quit. So now they're judging everybody and I got to like create the safe space, right. But here's the thing that I can tell you that I know is predictable All the times I've done the integrity and keynote, I'm always going to get those two answers Okay, okay. And you're astute to understand that there's a trigger, there's preconceived notions People may not understand. I think, Nathan, you said, people may not understand it fully.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:So that's one of the things I'm trying to do is, like, widen and deepen the understanding of integrity. So I get to hold up the mirror the first. I'm going fast now, I know, but first answer I'm going to get always going to say what is it? Hang on, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing. What is it Somebody's going to say be your word, do what you say you're going to do. And then, like Linda, somebody in my peripheral, somebody's going to go yeah, right. And already now I feel the vibration of judgment, like, oh, you've been wronged, have you? And somebody not kept their word with you. It is cute, right, but I'll go there and just like oh, did they take your answer? You're agreeing, so right, theologically, people go, or yeah, or go.
Speaker 1:There's like movement when somebody says be your word, okay, we're pinning that on the board, we like that, We'll work with that. And then the other answer I get and I'm always, you know, I shift my energy to the other side of the room to be inclusive and get everybody going Do the same thing when nobody's watching as you would when somebody's watching. Yeah, like, do the right thing regardless of who's watching. Okay, pin that on the board, and now those are the two that I work with. I say, hey, here's what I like about those two, and now I want to be a thought leader. First thing I like about the two is that when we do what we say we're going to do, we integrate. There's a coming together of word with behavior. Those two things are together when we do what we say we're going to do, they're not together. When we've just said something and not done it, do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, with behaviors and values. Over here, right To do the right thing, regardless of who's watching. Now we're integrating behavior with a value or a moral or a North Star or an ethic, but in both cases there's coming together and in both, you saw, that's the first thing I like I-N-T-E-G they both start with the same six letters, but nobody uses the word or the concept of coming together. When I asked what integrity is the? No judgment, not good or bad or right or wrong. It's together or not together.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, behaviors, in both equations, behavior with word and behavior with. So now I get to make the point that we judge ourselves by intent, but behavior is the evidence of our integrity. And I'm starting to create a safer, funny space, interactive space, funny for people to start to look within at their behavior. We're just starting. But then when I talk about what I don't like about the two, that's what gives me the excuse to fit. So I come up with 10 things. I mean, if you want to hear the 10 point model and pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, I go through the 10 points, yeah.
Speaker 3:So when you are then working with a smaller group, because I want you to bring us from the keynote to the you know to the the workroom right or the table.
Speaker 1:The boardroom yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so how does the conversation shift? How do people communicate more honestly about the topic?
Speaker 1:In different ways, because that's one of the things I like is the freedom within the framework. There's so much familiarity in the 10-point model and if I just missed you and tell you what the 10 points are, you're going to be like yeah, yeah, yeah. They each become clickable, like let me double click on this one and now the whole land of discussion and content and let me double click on this one and there's right, it's kind of set up that way. There's one of the things I like about it the freedom within the framework and its flexibility. It's it's a wireframe, but now like playground, right, we know when we're in, we know when we're out, and there's predetermined stuff on the playground and lots of free space to create right, right, right, right. But a more simple way to answer the question is this I think In Keynote I'm introducing the 10-point model, I'm trying to thought lead, an expansion or a depth around how we look at integrity and I'm trying to invite people to look within when it comes to integrity and I'm making the argument it's all informational, right, and I'm making the argument that we can retrofit ourselves.
Speaker 1:A building, a bridge or a tunnel will collapse under pressure tests without structural integrity will slow individuals, thieves and cultures. So how do we, from a soft skills perspective, how do we retrofit? Well, here's 10 point model and I just simply introduced. It's informative. But now in the boardroom I'm going to say, all right, let's get some answers to these, like we turn the points of the model into questions and we invite the answering of the question.
Speaker 1:What is the purpose of the company or the team, or the retreat or the event, or the product or the launch? What's the purpose? What are the gifts and competitive advantages? What's the potential? We break that down Vision, mission, objectives to facilitate right. What are the SMART goals? What are the strategies, tactics and resources? What's our relationship with our word? What words are we using? Back to what Brian brought up Integrity is a softer, more inviting word than accountability. If I started my keynotes, you guys want to laugh here. It goes a little something like this by show of hands, how many, how many of you have an external accountability source that you pay money and give permission to hold up a mirror in your face whenever you're wavering from your vision, mission?
Speaker 4:no vibe, yeah what else, when else?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, yeah, totally so how do you?
Speaker 2:you? Because if you Google what is integrity, there's a million like motivational poster type things that it's like posters a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measured principles, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, a criminal could have integrity because they're all about, you know, robbing banks and whatever. So I think this is kind of what you're talking about. How do you step way back from that? So you're introducing this framework through this idea of the integrity game, but how do you step back and get people to really wrestle with what are my life values? I mean, people spend a lifetime figuring that out and to figure out, is this action consistent with what I say? Like, how do you?
Speaker 1:It's the hard part. It's the hard part, and I can tell you that I can talk, I can get people to think about it, I can get people to wrestle with it. Up here, the line that it's hard to get people to cross over is tell me your answers, make a declaration, take a chance, be vulnerable, be honest with yourself. Why are you on this planet? Why are you in this company? What's your purpose? You follow so many people avoid that because as soon as you answer now, you can be held accountable to it. What an enormous responsibility. How do we make that easier, right? So, in other words, I'm still playing with this. I know that you got a question for me, brian, but you understand like I'm begging the world to just draft your answers. Draft, I use the word draft, just draft some answers. What's your purpose? What are your gifts? What's your potential? What are you trying to are? And not the hope, the wish or the dream, the goal, the what, by when? And is the goal integrated with your potential? Is the goal integrated with strategy? Is everything together? Is everything like? Imagine this, imagine like.
Speaker 1:I know I'm conceptual, I want to get, I really want to hear what Brian's questioning, but let's just say we all do a thousand things a day. All I'm trying to do what Brian's questioning? But let's just say we all do a thousand things a day. All I'm trying to do is increase the number of those that are integrated with each other and our answers Right. So, to be silly about it, because I'm using Trojan horse all the time, right, you guys have heard it said if we are not learning or if we are not growing, we're dying. So I'm here to say if we're not integrating, we might be disintegrating. Brian, what was your question?
Speaker 4:people are willing to talk about with integrity. Have you noticed the themes of what people are unwilling?
Speaker 1:to talk about, because I think that you have, first of all, yeah, it's funny. The funny answer to that is we're just going to work on my business, right? We're just going to work on my business. I know they're screwed up at all right, that's kind of a sure tell.
Speaker 2:Please don't go into this area. We're only talking about but?
Speaker 1:but the serious aspect of your question, Brian, things that people are purposely trying to avoid, or they declare are off limits, or they try to smoke and mirror and dirt. Give me an example. I mean because, yes, but people say well, do you do life coaching or are you a business coach?
Speaker 4:Yes, right.
Speaker 1:Like how do you separate? That's the flag. I weigh is that we can't build a mansion on top of quicksand and I can give you the best branding strategy that will revolutionize your outbound marketing. But if, while I'm giving you that strategy, you're worrying about your two mistresses and your estranged daughter, you might not land.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it might not land, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know like, if you are half asleep because you're overweight and if there's six cans of like high fructose corn soda on your desk.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should, maybe we should. I'm not a doctor, but I'm here to talk to you about everything that might be affecting what you want in this world. Don't tell me your goal is to get high blood pressure. That's not your goal. Your goal is to be a leader and a role model for your kids, and you tell me what you want and I'll help you get there. Yeah, brian, did I does that?
Speaker 4:answer that, or yeah, in part because I think that, um, you have a, you have the word to talk about. We know, as human beings, people want to, you know, make sense of some of the things that are providing them some internal conflict and dissonance, and lack of integrity is one of those. That's why I asked the question are there themes to which people are willing to talk about? Are you sensing what they're intentionally avoiding? So I really feel that the invitation to talk about integrity is an invitation to talk about the places in your life where you feel you need it.
Speaker 1:There's a series of things that people are avoiding. Let me just, in no particular order, a couple come to mind. What are they, Jeff?
Speaker 4:Tell me more Hard work.
Speaker 1:Behavioral change, even the most constructive criticism. So what we know about human beings? We can learn a lot from just simplified or flat response. So if there's by the ear, I don't't stop. I hear a buzz by my ear and that means, uh, if it's a, b, I could get stung and I'm in danger and I don't want that. So what should I do? That's what I we just immediately swatting right, fight or flight. The swatting concurrent concurrent right. So you follow like we're hardwired to protect ourselves, aren't we? Yes, I mean, guess what? We look, and it was a. Why? Hmm, it was a non-threat at all, it was a fly instead of a bee right, and we swat and ducked anyway. So doesn't that happen the same way emotionally? So what are people afraid of? Yeah, people are afraid of information that contradicts their sense of, because if anything comes along, anything in any way or form, that's different than my sense of stuff, that means I got to work and I got to change behavior and I got to start telling the truth and I got to think critically is.
Speaker 4:There's also a fundamental human need to be held accountable because it's a very unique way to forming strong, lasting relationships where there's high trust. And so you're bringing up two words, accountability and integrity, which I think are just on ramps to another type of conversation about where do I belong, how is it that I can be understood by others, and what are some of those connective tissues that hold us together?
Speaker 4:I think some of the ones some of those key connective tissues are the terms you're identifying accountability and integrity. That can help us understand why we're here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in my model, when I do the keynote right, I use the analogy of a shoelaces right. So shoelaces, the laces are not tying the shoe, we tie the laces. What the laces are doing is integrating, bringing the left side together Five holes on one side, five holes on the other side. And that's how I introduced the ten points on the model with these shoelaces right. But then that allows me to say that guess what the laces are? They're the adhesive. So the laces are, they're the adhesive. So the laces are our values. The laces are our love or our honesty, or our desire for trust or collaboration or any of the values you want to put in. That becomes the adhesive that keeps our integrity game together, our answers together. What were you going to say?
Speaker 3:yeah. Well, I'm so curious about any of your examples where you've had a breakthrough, where a group has had a breakthrough when it comes to integrity, where one element of I don't know one element of the keynote or the discussion, or maybe their own space to even discover their aha, where you really, you know, really help them get into the integrity game or experience life change as a result of, of leaning into one of the components.
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not asking for names, but yeah, yeah, not names.
Speaker 1:There's a, a firm, a law firm, and I I was working with the founder of the firm when he was solo, okay and um, this is before I even developed the integrity game model. But we did a lot of accountability, right, and you got to the point where, hey, you need to grow, you're making all the rain and you're buried in the work and you never hung up for dinner and you got to hire another attorney. I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I'm afraid. How am I going to Trust me? Trust me, let's start your strategic staffing process. Anyway, bottom line, he grows and he's got two partners, right, so this is, and then two associates. So I'm back working with the firm, right, but I'm coming back to retrofit the firm that you know right, and so I'm now I'm working with the partners and everything. So one of the partners has been the partners for five, six, seven years through this process Like you're going to have a conversation, we're talking about the integrity game, you're going to draft answers to these questions has volunteered recently.
Speaker 1:I don't like practicing law anymore. This is not part of my purpose.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Do you follow oh?
Speaker 4:yeah.
Speaker 1:And was miserable inside, and going on and on and on, and now you know what I mean, and going on, and on and on, and now you know what I mean, then, like, imagine the ripple effect of how it affects the firm. And so now and now we can tell the truth, now we can behave honest, now we can do what's right instead of being ashamed or afraid to talk or tell the truth or what are the repercussions or whatever. If you're getting really honest about who you are and you get really honest about why you're at this burn and I just create the safest place for you to have an honest answer to this question you might arrive at like, oh my God, I'm dying on the vine and it's not fair to my partners.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's good, love it, love it.
Speaker 1:That's one example. Everybody's free Now. Everybody's free, right, he's free, especially him. Imagine his wife and the ripple effect. That's one example that comes to mind is fresh.
Speaker 4:In you diving in head first with this idea, with the concept of integrity. What have you learned about your own integrity in this process?
Speaker 1:That I can prove it that it's not just a source of beat myself up, it's not just an imposter syndrome or fear of missing out. People make it sexy. People say oh, I'm such a procrastinator, that's not a becoming word. Why is it okay for you to say that about yourself? There's people that aren't thinking about things and they just accept as part of their identities that they're underachieving, and I don't you know, but what the integrity game has done for me is.
Speaker 1:It's getting me focused on how to improve my integrity, how to increase the retrospect myself, rather than just beat myself up over everything.
Speaker 4:I'm not achieving, I'm more resilient.
Speaker 1:I know what to say yes to. I know what to say yes to. I know what to say no to. I'm not people pleasing, I'm not taking, I'm not a feather being blown in the wind by other people's agendas.
Speaker 4:I there's so many briefly yeah, answer the question, that's good. Well, jeff, I want to thank you, um, because I know I gotta bounce, but I want to say one thing I really appreciate, um, your handle of the english language. Let me say why Because I can imagine the way you connect to audiences, because you have so many ways to express what it is that you're trying to say and you know that then that creates this massive net to capture a lot of people's attention in ways that people that don't have that type of scope to the way they express themselves. So I can just imagine how you'd check people.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate that. That is well-received, thank you.
Speaker 2:Brian, I do have one quick question. I think we can answer it. You kind of said it, started to say it there, but none of this work is like a game in the sense that you play nine innings and it's done. There's a winner and a loser. There's a constant, a lifetime of work from being, you know, having integrity with who you say you are all that stuff. So how do you coach people or help people when they do quote, unquote, fall off the wagon of integrity? I don't think that's a thing. But you know, when people are discouraged, like oh man, I was making progress and then I didn't, and then like what is that process like? Or maybe even just to sort of end with a word of encouragement to remind people that all of this stuff is like a lifelong process, don't be so hard on yourself. Keep going, fighting the good fight, whatever other metaphorical things you want to say to it.
Speaker 1:There you go, you said it all. I mean, look like, I mean there's so many things to respond to that Like the only person that's, the only person that's worried that they're not good enough for the next level is the person that knows they're going, if you right. So just just keep growing, keep growing, keep growing. There's growing pain. Sometimes it hurts. Growing, keep growing, keep growing. There's growing pain. Sometimes it hurts. Like you like, just like, stay away from the pain of regret. Okay, take action and even if you fail, you'll learn something's. Most things, failure, just learning, wrapped in a little discomfort. Don't let the packaging fool you. Always check in with yourself about who you are and what you want. Who are you, what do you want, who are you and what do you want, and try to stay as true to that as you can, and and if the integrity game can help you, then we'd love to help.
Speaker 2:I like it. Well, Jeff Klubeck, thank you so much. This was awesome. Thank you so much for your energy and your insight and I'm going to link to the Kluby snacks and the other stuff that you've got going on. I will put a link to all of your resources. So just thank you so much, as I said, and just best of luck to you. Thanks, Nathan, Thank you Linda.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Brian.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so good.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, hey.
Speaker 2:Another big thank you to Jeff Klubeck for taking the time to chat with us on the podcast. You can learn more about Jeff and all the good work he is doing at theintegritygamecom. We're also through the link in our show notes. And just a reminder that integrity isn't about never making mistakes. It's about owning your actions and continuously striving for alignment between values and behavior. Jeff encouraged us to stay true to our purpose, to embrace accountability and keep growing things that we're all about here at Leadership Vision.
Speaker 2:If you would like to learn more about how we help individuals and teams do that, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. But thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our podcast. We would appreciate it if you could review this on iTunes and Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts, but maybe more importantly, share this with someone else that you think could benefit from growing into these ideas. Again, click the link in the show notes to learn more about what we do. Go to leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Follow us on all the social media platforms. My name is Nathan Freeberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.