The Leadership Vision Podcast

When Teams Dream: How Leaders Create Space for Collective Imagination

• Nathan Freeburg • Season 8 • Episode 21

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In part two of our series on “Dreaming,” Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring continue their exploration of how dreams unfold—not just within individuals, but within teams and entire organizations. We delve into the powerful role leaders play in creating space for collective imagination and how dreaming—distinct from vision—can transform individuals and systems.

You’ll hear real stories from our consulting work, insights from Unfolded, and practical questions to help you bring these ideas into your team. Whether you're a leader, manager, or team member, this conversation offers tangible takeaways to inspire deeper engagement and shared transformation.

What You’ll Learn

  • The difference between a vision and a dream in leadership
  • Why leaders must create space for dreaming—and how to do it
  • How individual dreams and team dreams coexist and amplify each other
  • Signs of dreamers in the workplace and how to nurture them
  • Real examples of dreams unfolding in the organizations we work with
  • Questions you can ask yourself and your team to spark dreaming today

💬 Key Quotes

“Isn’t a dream a way that we imagine a new possibility for ourselves?”
– Brian Schubring


“Dreams happen when people gather.”
– Dr. Linda Schubring


“What if we created places where individuals feel they’re not just fulfilling the dream of someone else—but their own dream, too?”
 – Brian Schubring


🔗 Related Links

🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!

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The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.

Speaker 1:

When we apply this idea of dream to a professional context, we have found that the success of even the idea of a team dreaming lies on the leader. It is the leader's responsibility to create a context where dreams are even permissible. And when a leader dreams, and when a leader has these big ideas that captures people's imagination and captures their attention, other people are invited to do the same thing. And isn't a dream, a way that we imagine a new possibility for ourselves? If a leader is someone who is in a place where they are dreaming, they are creating an opportunity for people to align on that dream and really ask themselves how can I make that dream a? Really ask themselves, how can I make that dream a reality? But there's a catch. It isn't just the leader's dream. We're talking about the kind of dream that involves every member of the team, their capacity to dream, to make this larger dream a reality. And that's a much more complex idea of dreaming than I think most people are imagining.

Speaker 2:

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about us, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Hello everyone, I'm Nathan Friberg and today on the show we are exploring what happens when a team dreams together. In this episode, dr Linda and Brian Shubring unpack how leaders can create the conditions for imagination, transformation and alignment, not just for a company's vision, but for each team member's individual potential.

Speaker 2:

Now this is part two of our series on dreaming, based on their new book Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane, which you can pick up wherever good books are sold. Now I'll include a link to part one of that conversation in the show notes, which that episode is all about how individuals dream In those accompanying show notes, which that episode is all about how individuals dream. In those accompanying show notes, I'll also include some links to the research mentioned here and also a challenge question for all of us to consider. All right, so let's just jump right into this with Brian kind of unpacking and explaining sort of the big picture or the big vision or the big dream of what this conversation is about.

Speaker 1:

I believe that most leaders believe they're dreaming on behalf of the team when they're imagining ways that they're going to achieve some kind of objective or respond to some social pressure Like, well, here's what we can do to accomplish that. And they think, well, that's my dream, and it's often cloaked in the word vision. That's not at all what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is the leader that shows up and imagines what this team could do, almost regardless of context, like what is their capacity and what does the leader know about individual team members. That then empowers the team member to dream for themselves. Imagine a team where people say here's what I'm doing to help fulfill the team's dream. And imagine a team where someone says here's my dream of who I can be as a professional how can you all help me? Or here's how you all can help me achieve my dream. I think there's three to nine to 27 different dimensions of application on how a team can be a place where dreams can become a reality, if we give dreams a chance to breathe.

Speaker 3:

Leaders are paid to have a vision and move forward, move forward.

Speaker 3:

And I think it's the unique leaders perhaps the community oriented leaders that get into a space and almost stir up the waters of dreams and inspire people to dream a dream beyond them and be part of a dream.

Speaker 3:

So, for me, I'm much better at the dreaming than I am the vision. I know that about myself, but there were things that I learned when I had a team and we were working at a university. My dream for the group that I gathered was that we would create a space for students to grow and learn and fail and try again and expand to be who they were, and that came out in a lived way by each one of the team members that I worked with, where we began to dream and invite our students into the dreaming process and together we created a place where we figured out how to lead together and how. You know, my hope was my hope and my dream was that we would become a place where, when they find, when people found out where this person went to school, they'd be like oh, because they invest in leaders there. Oh, they know how to listen to people. Oh, they're training up people that are world changers, and that was a driving dream for me we're talking about three types of dreaming there.

Speaker 2:

There's dreaming as a leader, dreaming as a team member and dreaming together as a team.

Speaker 1:

The key to this conversation about dreaming is are there dreamers even around? The leaders who make the best leaders, I believe, are the ones who are really familiar with dreaming themselves. I've met many people that are really clear on one or two different directions, that they believe the team is heading and they're executing on the directions, but they're not necessarily dreaming. Leaders who are dreamers are the ones that are willing to cash everything in for a dream. They're also willing to give one up pretty quickly.

Speaker 1:

People who are great dreamers. They don't necessarily need to have the dream themselves, but they're willing to take the risk, to dream and to imagine the possibilities and they can give up quickly or they can hit the gas and go even quicker because they are really familiar with dreams. That's important, because then a leader who's a dreamer is also willing to help others dream. They have a level of patience and they know what to do to help nurture people to dream as well. And that's kind of what I'm asking us to think about first is who and where are the leaders that are familiar with dreaming that then give them the capacity and the ability to dream on behalf of a team and to dream on behalf of team members?

Speaker 3:

And I think you find those leaders by detecting them in the environments that we're in. In their language you'll hear things like, I wonder have you ever thought of I'm curious about, and the ones that are willing to quickly let go of certain dreams and grab hold of the next by dreaming some more? I think the dreamers are detected. I think the dreamers that then can partner with the right people to make their dreams a reality and to make the collective dream a reality, those are the game changers.

Speaker 1:

And in this context we're specifically talking about dreams that unfold your greatest possibility and potential. So a leader who dreams is someone that is willing to be tested to see what their potential and possibility actually is as well. Dreamers that dream on behalf of a team are looking at the team and thinking what's the possibility of this team and what is the potential of this collective team? Another dimension is a leader who looks at individuals and asks the same question what's the possibility of this person and what is the potential of this person and then thinks about how can we really interact together so that we can align toward a specific dream that's on the horizon.

Speaker 1:

What I think is really unique and catalytic about this conversation is it isn't just one's ability to dream, no matter who you are individual, team member or leader. We also have to recognize the context that we're in and if the context is a place where this dream can be incubated and all the way to fulfilled. Or are the people that are around me? Are they the ones that are going to help make this dream a reality? Those are really critical questions to ask, because all those components are necessary the dreaming, the context and the people.

Speaker 3:

Make it live.

Speaker 1:

There's a leader that comes to mind right now and this leader is a pure dreamer. There's this dreams that it seems like whenever you're talking to him he's interpreting a dream in mid-sentence and he's not only dreaming on behalf of the future of the organization, but he's really looking at his executive team and asking is this team the team that's going to fulfill this reality? It is a meta dream that he's considering. It's a dream that is being asked of the team and he's doing the work to ask is each individual going to be able to participate in the fulfillment of a dream? I know another leader and she's in a place and she's really working with the place and the capacity of the place to hold the dream. Are the leaders in this place willing to carry the dream forward? It's a very different approach because it doesn't really have this meta arc to the dream, but it is a dream that is birthed within the context of the organization and that's just as important as a much larger dream that supersedes context.

Speaker 3:

So, how did you learn to lead in the? Or how did you learn to dream in the context of your leadership?

Speaker 1:

I think the context of my dreaming it starts in vision, and I think vision's a little bit different, because vision is imagining a brighter future, imagining a different future, imagining a landscape that has yet to be explored. I'm really compelled by that vision and then trying to ask myself who are the people around me and how are we going to help make that vision a reality? I really want to utilize the resources that are near before I look at the resources that are far, if that makes sense, because I begin to dream into the people that are around me and what's their potential to help me this vision. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2:

So I think a question I have that others might have is what is the difference between a dream and a vision? It seems like maybe those are interchangeable, but I don't think that's true.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say a dream is more aspirational, it is more of an ideal future or a desire for the future. And I think vision and why oftentimes there are vision statements and not dream statements is that visions are more clear, detailed and they move an organization, a group toward a preferred future.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

So vision is more clear and dream is the process of it Go ahead.

Speaker 2:

A dream is the process of it. Okay, I was going to say a dream is just like of it. Go ahead, this big, exciting dream, and then get it into practical steps. Is that where the team comes in? Obviously, I think it does.

Speaker 1:

Hang on. I don't know how to say this, because the leader needs to be the person that is primarily carrying the vision and the dream for the team. The vision is a clear and articulate, actionable plan on how we're going to get from here to there. A dream is the inspiration and the imagination that involves the possibility and the potential of the team. So the dream in our context is then, with a clear and compelling vision.

Speaker 1:

How is it that you're dreaming into the people on your team to help make that vision a reality?

Speaker 1:

Because, in the context of the book, a dream unlocks our greatest possibility and potential as individuals, and when a team comes together, you're a collection of individuals, and my question to leaders is how can we create places where individuals feel that they're not just fulfilling the dream and vision of someone else, but the dream of their own identity is also being fulfilled in the process of pursuing something else?

Speaker 1:

I want team members to feel that their best version of who they could possibly be is happening within a team context, in a company, somewhere that they wouldn't trade that opportunity for anything, because they know if I leave this team, part of me is going to die or I'm going to let go of part of me and try to find that somewhere else, or something so compelling about knowing that someone's helping me become a better version of myself. I'm helping them become a better version of myself on this journey towards fulfilling a vision that is well, whatever it is, I don't know if I really care about that, but a leader that can dream of a place where this type of reality is happening, I think, is creating a place where people's beauty and brilliance is coming alive. They're tapping into their greatest potential. They may feel uncomfortable most of the time, but they're loving it because they're feeling a part of themselves that has yet to be completed, becoming complete.

Speaker 2:

So does the leader, then, have the job of getting this big dream for everyone and playing a significant role in each person's individual dream as well.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a collection of the team members that the team members are saying here's the dream we have for the team. Now, a leader can certainly be the one that is instigating that conversation, but I would love for a team to imagine for themselves what can we become in this process of dreaming on behalf of the team and how can I become part of making that dream a reality. When was the last time team members pondered what could we possibly be as a team? They really had a chance to imagine man. What if we were all dial a team? They really had a chance to imagine man. What if we were all dialed in? What if we all liked each other? What if we were all fulfilling our potential? Every day we collaborated well, what would that look like? Without any barriers, without unnecessary conflict. What could that dream really be on a team?

Speaker 3:

And what I know is you don't come at it from that direct of a stance, meaning hey, everybody, let's share our dreams. Okay, is this what you're going to be? Is this what you want to do? I think dreams are uncovered when you start to get to know the team members that you're working with, when you start to get to know what they like and what they're passionate about and what their voice sounds like. And dreams happen when people gather, because in the gathering, I think we find that people start to start to practice dreaming together, meaning, oh, you like to do that, then I could do this. And in our work with middle managers in particular, so they don't have the same kind of pressures as executive teams. They have a little bit more authority than their followers, than their direct reports, and they find themselves in a place where they're looking around. And how do they help a team dream, how do they affirm those that are dreaming and have big, audacious goals, and how do they get the followers on board as well?

Speaker 2:

We wanted to get off the metaphor and go into something specific. How do we want to do that? I feel like we're talking very vaguely about you've got to have a dream helping to dream. How do we help teams dream? How do we help leaders dream? How do we help team members dream? What does that look like practically speaking?

Speaker 1:

Well, I was talking to Linda before we did this, and what I'm going to say is about what happens when we work with a team, because my observation is, when we are working with a team, we get a chance to work with a team all together in 90 minute sessions, so all the team members are there and they're all playing. We get to observe teams at play in the wild. Then we get a chance to have one-to-one conversations with each team member. They'll rarely, if ever, use the word dream, but guess what they do? They dream, they imagine what it'd be like if that team did something better or if they worked around this one challenge or if someone didn't have that attitude all the time, and they talk about this dream state of what it'd be like if this team just did this or if we simply had this figured out, or if we had enough of that. That to me, and I told Linda. They're dreaming. They dream in every conversation we have.

Speaker 1:

We have countless numbers of conversations with team members and I believe that they're all dreaming of what it might be like if something wasn't in the way of their team filling their potential or fulfilling of a team fulfilling their potential.

Speaker 1:

I believe that team members are captivated by the pent-up potential that their team actually has and their desire to actually see the team work better together.

Speaker 1:

I think, if we were to summarize our conversations, I think that there's something innately happening with team members where they're asking themselves man, if we just and that's a dream and they're asking themselves I don't think a lot of people ask themselves if they can be the ones that actually crack this open. They kind of want someone else to do the work for them but that's one of the keys for a successful team and that is one person who's taking the risk to imagine what it would be like if they could help someone else get unstuck or help someone else get unlocked, because that is releasing others towards the fulfillment of in our case, in this conversation, of fulfilling a dream, because I have a dream that we show up somewhere and teams say oh, by the way, we have a dream for our team. That's the kind of context I would love to have people that aligned and saying we have a dream for our team and here's how I'm helping make that happen.

Speaker 3:

Here's an example we are working with a team right now middle management, senior leaders and there's quite a few women in the group of about 14, 15 people. These women could not be more different, which is wonderful, which is absolutely wonderful. And, as Brian mentioned, we've divided up the group, so I meet with half of the people. Brian meets with the other half um, people being team members and leaders, and what I was detecting was between the men and the women is uh, regardless of gender, there was an excitement for sorry, that's uh keep going, going.

Speaker 2:

Is it too loud? They're it's loud, it's okay, they'll be done.

Speaker 1:

Blowing the terrace in just a second, all right we'll keep going.

Speaker 3:

Let's see what is unique about this team is, regardless of gender people, people recognize the power in the woman's voice.

Speaker 3:

And these women who are so different, we're kind of trying to figure out like, well, how do we be strong women together and how does this work and how do we help each other? And what I started to uncover and detect was this dream that they had to be strong. And what we know from history is when women a part of an organization are invested in, it allows the whole collective to be stronger. When a woman's voice is suppressed, then the entire structure or voices will be suppressed. One of the things that I was learning was this group has a dream for everyone to flourish, for everyone to find their greatest potential. And when I would mirror back and I would say, what I hear is you want to be a part of this and you could help her by doing this and you could help him by doing that, there is such an excitement stirred that after the fact, some of these leaders were talking to the executive team and telling them about. You know meeting with us.

Speaker 3:

But it wasn't us. We were just mirroring back dreams that they have to be this strong, cohesive, aligned, empowered, champions of each other on a team doing big and scary things together and being successful.

Speaker 1:

Because that client that Linda is talking about is a great example of how dreams are happening all around us.

Speaker 1:

Individuals just have a natural tendency to dream and as I was thinking about this last section of the podcast this morning, I was thinking okay, our professional places that we engage are full of dreams. The way people get into the jobs that they're in is because they dreamed of having that job. You have people that show up at the beginning of their career and they're dreaming of where they might go in the organization, or they're dreaming of another organization because they don't see their dreams being fulfilled where they're at. Don't see their dreams being fulfilled where they're at. You have people that are partnering up, no matter what their age or experience. They're creating partnerships because they dream that they can be better at their work or be more happier if they're partnered with someone or not partnered with another.

Speaker 1:

You have people who are dreaming of retirement and they're trying to figure out how am I going to make it through the next six years, because their dream is getting out of there Now.

Speaker 1:

That may not be the greatest example, but there's a dream there. There are people that are dreaming of just being accepted for who they are as individuals in the workplace, full stop. It has nothing to do with their job, they just want to be seen for who they are, how they express themselves, their lived experience and what they see life as true. That's their dream, and we meet plenty of people who are stuck in that context because they don't believe that their full self is accepted and that dream isn't a reality. Then there are people who have just these crazy dreams of what could happen if, and that causes them to navigate through an organization in whatever way possible to fulfill their dreams. I think that there's such a powerful way that people dream. If we, just as team members, recognize that's the person that we're working alongside has their own complete, independent dream set that we may never know of, and, as leaders, how can we even begin to have conversations that don't feel threatening about what a person's dream is?

Speaker 3:

Some people's dreams are other people's nightmares.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's really good.

Speaker 2:

That is so true. That's very true.

Speaker 3:

Because there are things where and we've had plenty of colleagues that they get excited about organizing things and putting them in the right places. And that would be a nightmare. But together we can find stuff.

Speaker 2:

That's funny. So, Brian and Linda, in the last podcast we did on dreams, it was really about the individual dream. It was about my personal dream, dream big think of this. And today we're talking about dreaming as a leader, dreaming as a team member, dreaming, you know, part of a team. So where does the individual fit in this?

Speaker 1:

My invitation to the individual would be to ask you to think how can my work, my job, the place that I work and my team help me fulfill my greatest possibility and my greatest potential?

Speaker 1:

Now, the greatest may be an overreach, but the idea, I think, is true how can this opportunity that I'm currently in bring out the best of who I am? And that may cause people to ask themselves if they're even in the right place, or who around them can help or who around them can help, and to use that dreaming as an inspiration to help you look for the right opportunities. What's really a struggle is when we see people who have failed to believe in themselves because their work context isn't fulfilling, and I believe that when that happens, people kind of give up on dreaming that it can be any better and they start complaining about the lights or whether we should have hardwood floors or carpet in their office. It just kind of crumbles from there, because when we come across environments that are trying to help individuals become better human beings, that's a place where people imagine about the possibility of what they could become and that's the context where dreams are birthed.

Speaker 3:

And I wonder if some of that advice happens in the space between all the other work and all the other goals and responsibilities that as we are getting to work with each other. Oftentimes there are people that are drawn to organizations because of their vision, because of their mission, because of what they get to do together. Maybe they read the job description and they're like this is so me, I want to be there. They're still in the honeymoon phase, but people keep saying this is my dream job. I can't believe I get to do this. I can't believe people are paying me for this.

Speaker 3:

And I hear when Brian says don't stop dreaming. I think there's so many people that have stopped. I think life has a way, and our life experience has a way of crushing some of our dreams. And I would say go back to the people that helped, helped release who you are, where you felt stronger than you, um that you than you knew, when you feel smarter than you realized, when you realized you were, you were definitely more capable.

Speaker 3:

And I think it's not just go in a room and have a dream, but get to work interacting with people. And because I think sometimes the dream comes when an idea is sparked and people say, hey, I can help with that, hey, that'd be fun, I'll raise my hand I know it's outside, I know it's the other duties as assigned and I'm willing to do that and they start to find that they're really good at it or they want to move more in that direction. So I don't think dream just happens, you know like, and now we're putting dreaming on the agenda, so we're gonna all close our eyes and you know, just think about hopes and dreams for five minutes. Yes, there's idea, yes, there's ideation, but I think there's a. It's a pause in the midst of all the busyness and chaos and hectic nature.

Speaker 2:

It's the pause and the breath of okay, what could I do here, what could we do here that invites the dreams that we idea, I think, is really powerful, because when I was preparing for this, I found some research that talked about, which I'll share in the show notes, but it talked about how, when leaders invite teams to co-create the vision or the dream, engagement really goes up significantly, and it's that rallying around that dream that you know increases performance and well-being, satisfaction scores, all of that. So if, to close things out here, I'm wondering if, like, where would someone begin? So you're a leader, you're listening to this, what is maybe a question that can be asked or, I don't know, an activity Like what's a first small step towards a dream that invites this idea of transformation for the team and perhaps for the individual as well?

Speaker 1:

Well, the first question I would ask somebody is what professional dream do you have? Yeah, ooh, profound.

Speaker 1:

Just start really, really big, because one of the practices that we engage in with teams and with individuals is we start with questions that reflect an inverted pyramid, like just what's the biggest question you could possibly ask just to get them to think about the idea, and that's a professional dream and then kind of boil the questions down to you know, is this place a place where that dream might become a reality? Another layer down is is this team helping you, you know, in the pursuit or the fulfillment, or even getting a couple of steps closer to the fulfillment of your professional dream? And then what are you doing? Like that's the fourth step is what are you doing as a person to help make that dream a reality, instead of relying on other people to make it a reality for you?

Speaker 3:

And I would say the opposite.

Speaker 3:

I would say think about the dreams from your past, and what kind of clues can you gather from from what you learned about those dreams?

Speaker 3:

Maybe they were too big, maybe they were too small, Maybe they were with the wrong people, maybe you were before your time, maybe you were right on time, maybe you're longing for those days again and maybe it's time to stir up a dream and start to dream about a new context. And so I think there's a sense of looking back, to look forward and and I would start with a pulse check and how you're doing dreaming right now, and just give yourself a rating, give yourself a sense of like when was the last time you dreamed? Are you, do you have any dreams in your queue? Are you waiting for some of those dreams to land there? And and I think that takes introspection, and I think we're in a we're in a time in history where it's just easier to numb, it's easier to scroll, it's easier to do anything but look inside, and I think the introspection of looking where you are now, where you've been and where you can go, will unlock not just your dreams but your greatest potential. Wow.

Speaker 2:

Well, brian, linda, thank you so much. I'm excited to go back and edit this and re-listen to it and think about more of this for myself and for our team and listeners. If you have questions about this or any of our other resources and materials, we would love it if you could reach out. Send us an email at connect at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. We would love to wrestle with some of these ideas with you. I'm Nathan Friberg. I'm Linda Schubring.

Speaker 1:

And I'm Brian Schubring.

Speaker 2:

And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.