The Leadership Vision Podcast

Coming Home After Transformation: Why Growth Needs a Place to Land

• Nathan Freeburg, Linda Schubring, Brian Schubring • Season 9 • Episode 2

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What happens after growth? After the dream is realized? After the change takes its toll?

In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, Nathan Freeburg is joined by Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring to revisit Chapter Five—Home—from Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane.

Together, they explore why transformation requires a place to land, how excitement and exhaustion can coexist, and what leaders can learn from creating space for reflection, rest, and reintegration. This conversation offers practical wisdom for leaders, teams, and anyone navigating change.

Key Topics Covered

  • Why transformation doesn’t end with achievement
  • The role of “home” in integrating growth
  • Excitement and exhaustion as signs of meaningful effort
  • The leadership power of open-ended questions
  • How individual growth impacts the community
  • Why the dream continues after the dream is lived

Reflection Question

Where do you—or your team—have permission to return, reflect, and rest after growth?

Links

🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!

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SPEAKER_02:

Because when you've been transformed, you come back with a renewed understanding or vision of the relationships and the place and the challenges and the platforms and all that stuff. I think that people undervalue the importance of returning to home and reconsidering what is there that you can continue to learn. It's more about the return for me. When you return home, your perspective of the people have changed. When you return home, the voices that you're hearing, there's a different perspective to those voices.

SPEAKER_01:

You're listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about what we do, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at Leadership Vision Consulting.com. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg. Welcome back to the Leadership Vision Podcast. And in today's episode, I'm joined once again by Dr. Linda and Brian Schuberg as we revisit chapter 5 of Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Oregon Ukraine, the chapter titled Home. Now, this conversation is all about what happens after transformation, what it means to return home changed, how excitement and exhaustion can exist at the same time, and why home, whether it's a place, community, or a team, matters so deeply in how we integrate growth, meaning, and purpose. Now, as you listen, I'd invite you to pay attention to the moments where reflection happens, especially how open-ended questions, patient listening, and shared space help people make sense of what they've been through. Now, this episode isn't just about the journey or the dream, it's about how we can come back, how we can rest, and how our transformation ripples out to others. So we hope you enjoy this conversation from Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an Oregon Ukraine. You can join the conversation by commenting in the accompanying blog post, link in the show notes, or on social media. Let's get into it. Like specifically, these guys that were guarding the merchant ships crossing the Atlantic, people are like, wow, that must have been crazy. And they're like, they just had no place to put that life-threatening, intense experience, especially at such a young age. So they just had a re a lot of them had a hard time integrating back. Does that have any connection to what we're talking about when OC re returns home and maybe just substitute World War II for any kind of intense experience? Can't articulate it. You can't quite communicate how you're changed. You don't even know all that you've gone through.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, that's where the phrase you had to be there. Right. And I think it's an intense experience. Travels, I think there are just a myriad of experiences, be it World War II or anything modern day that gives you a sense of how do you articulate something that feels so human yet completely out of the normal, out of the ordinary. And how do you put language around something to be able to translate it to the listener, to the receiver, to the recipient? So I think there's a great correlation there, Nathan.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, Linda, I also think that if we look at our hero of the story, our organi crane, when she returns home, there is both this equal part of excitement and exhaustion. She's like, oh my gosh, look what I just did, and I need a nap. How do we what do we do with those two things? Because I can think of a million different activities in life that both of those things are true. And it's like, I'm not sure what I need to do first or next with this experience.

SPEAKER_02:

Part of the reason why I think it's important to look at those two words, excitement and exhaustion, is because the experience of flight was an emotional experience. It was the fulfillment of a dream, it was the breaking through of a limiting challenge, it was the meeting of somebody new. And once OC returns, I feel that this emotional experience that she has been a part of left her excited and exhausted. And that recognition that that home is a place where we can feel the freedom to release from an exciting emotional high and feel exhausted because home is a place where there is safety. And home can be virtually anywhere. It could be our physical home wherever we live. Home could be the teams or groups of people that we do life with. It's that place that we have a resonance of belonging and a resonance of meaning where we can have an emotional experience and be exhausted and not have to worry about having to explain every detail until it comes up later.

SPEAKER_00:

The reason why we put those two together is that they both are true and can be true at the same time. I remember being raised in a way where I thought, you know, if I'm doing something emotional and exciting, that it should feel be fulfilling. And this is where you're tapping into your full purpose, and this is where you're realizing your greatest potential. And I soon realized that sometimes when I am at my finest, I am the most exhausted afterwards. And I was wrestling with that. And a leader, a mentor of mine, she just said, Linda, it's like a ton of energy going through a wire, and it's gonna feel burned in it, it's gonna feel crispy. Just let the wire cool down. And for the first time, April gave me permission to look at the outpouring of my energy and my purpose in a different way to allow me. Yes, I felt the excitement and reliving some of the moments from the work that we did. But then she also gave me this permission. It's okay to be exhausted and find some renewal, go back out there.

SPEAKER_02:

And part of the life lesson that's embedded here is oftentimes when leaders experience some of their team members as exhausted or excited, they often think that that emotional expression is about them. Where I would I would wonder if someone's excited or someone's exhausted or having some kind of emotional reaction, wonder to yourself have they just been in flight? Is there something even positive that you can look at that emotion and think, what's happening here that's positive, that may be something transformational, that in flight moment. And the point is, ask about it. Because there are some times when leaders are the people in life that kind of need to ask the question, like, why are you so excited? Or you know, why are you out believing that there could be something positive behind the emotional expression that one's feeling?

SPEAKER_00:

Which is why we have Owl on deck right away, first to speak, to not just welcome OC home, but to ask, how did it go? And it was an open-ended question. It wasn't, oh, so you're tired. Oh, so while that must have been emotional, there was nothing layered in it. It was this open-ended question that we would invite leaders to find those kind of questions that that elicit a great response. And so, what did you hear from OC? Oh, a little bit about this, and a little bit about that, and a little bit about this. So there's this sense of it just opening up a brand new conversation.

SPEAKER_02:

And that brief conversation between OWL and OC is so important for those of us who are serving as leaders, even team members, because OWL allows OC to go on and on and on. And like in my mind, that's the film that's playing, is this conversation where you know Owl just is patient because OWL, the person that has done the challenging for growth and development and inspiration, then sees an opportunity to reinforce. Well, OC, what did you learn? Because I believe that when when individuals are having emotional experiences, they're the most open and vulnerable to receive anything that's coming next. And sometimes I believe it is a leader's responsibility to reinforce the positive attributes of growth and learning and development that someone's going through, whether they're going through challenge or change or uncertainty. And that's what OWL does. OWL doesn't like scold or OWL doesn't like send spend time teaching. Owl reminds OC, remember, remember what you've learned. Remember how you've loved yourself to this point. Remember, this is about accepting who you are. It's these gentle reminders that can make a lasting imprint on someone because the person receiving the insight is having an emotional experience and they're more receptive to whatever words of wisdom are coming to them at that time.

SPEAKER_01:

It almost feels like what OC saw and experienced didn't matter in some ways. Do you remember what after OC, do you remember or after Owl asks how to go? Do you remember OC's response?

SPEAKER_00:

Just rambling.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. OC started rambling. And to your point, Owl listened patiently and was like, that's all great. Great. Whatever you saw, fantastic. But here's what you have to remember. Learn to fly, learn to love. So I wonder sometimes as leaders, it's almost like it's less about the specifics of what you saw and what you did. And maybe OC's rambling didn't surprise Owl in any way. It's like that's all great. Just remember this lesson. And I wonder how, as we are recording this at the beginning of 2026, how do we encourage people, encourage leaders to help remind their people about what really matters, about the wisdom to see in transformation there?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I would say what do you think? Well, is that like uh question there? Okay, yes, because a leader's job is to listen to the song beneath the words. To listen to the parts of the rambling that was like, yeah, but listening to what was important to that person who just took flight. And and to then let them settle in. So what when a leader is paying attention to what someone is saying, those are the data points that you can use to figure out what's really important to them. It's the on-ramp to then give some good feedback of, hey, remember, be a part of this and be a part of that. And I'm just reminding you of what you've already said before, um, or what I was trying to impart to you back in the day.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that what our practice has taught us is that no matter who you are, there's transformation happening around us all the time. And I think that there are times that we as partners and friends and participants in communities to simply ask open-ended questions and give people the chance to just share what they're challenged with and how they're being changed, for us to remind them of how self-exploration and testing and taking flight is a transformational experience, to just listen and to not feel the need to complete the story for them or to finish whatever they're they're trying to tell. Because in our story and in this chapter of home, Owl kind of leaves it open-ended. Why C jumps in? I think that part of us as community members to remind ourselves that we're just one paver stone on this journey of someone else's life, and we're butting up against someone else who is there to literally keep the story moving forward, and it's not our responsibility.

SPEAKER_00:

We wanted OC to reflect right away about the things that she saw, what stood out to her. We wanted her to briefly talk about her emotions and what actually happened while she was in flight, and who were the people along the way? I think if we would have left that part out and then just kind of brought Owl in and Owl's welcoming and didn't have that interrupting question, that you would have missed the heart of, oh wow, for me, who are the people that are influencing me? Who are the people that I met on my flight when I were when I was ri realizing my dreams? What was I paying attention to? And how did I feel, good, bad, or otherwise?

SPEAKER_02:

And I feel that part of the invitation here with this chapter of home is to do this reflection, to do this returning home to the place where the transformation began. There's something important, like if we're going through some kind of challenge that's transforming us from the inside out and that's happening within our work team, I believe it's important for us to reflect within that team, to reflect in that place and to use the visual cues, the emotional cues, the relational cues to help us understand really what we've gone through. Because place really does matter. And so that way of reflection in the appropriate place adds to the dimensionality and the ability to remember what happened whenever we return to that place. It makes that place more safe for us, and it also increases our ability to trust the people there because each of those people, regardless of their voice, was part of the process of transformation.

SPEAKER_00:

Even Fox.

SPEAKER_01:

Even Fox. Yeah, they're they're all a part of it. Shortly after all this happens, OC says something to the effect of having a dream is one thing, but then actually living it is another. And I I I wonder how that relates to what we're talking about here, because often I think we we have this dream that if we're you know lucky enough to achieve it, you know, we're like working really hard, really hard, and then boom, we achieved it. Now you have to maintain it or continue living into it, or maybe it was something that happened and is now over, and now you're like, well now what do I do? That seems to be where home becomes most important because then you're like in it. It's not just like getting to the thing, it's like getting and then surviving. How do you coach people on that part of this? Because no dream is ever you get there and then you're done. How do you maintain that? How do you then go to the next? Does that make sense? Like I'm I'm I'm wrestling a little bit with this idea of living into that dream. You know, it's almost like you just keep re-upping and re-upping and raising the stakes and or is it passing off the dream to someone else?

SPEAKER_00:

Or is that part of the dream?

SPEAKER_01:

Or is that part of the dream? I mean, yeah, I guess it depends on the dream, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because that's where I would have gone with that, Nathan, is because I believe that we are often misinformed about what the achievement of the dream is. We may feel that the achievement of the dream is that mountaintop emotional experience when we're soaring above the cottonwood trees. Or is the dream actually achieved when you return? That's the continuation of the dream. Now, what happens? I believe that dreams are provided for us so that it becomes not only a transformational teaching moment for us, it's also so that we can be with others as they dream as well. Not to solve their problems, just to be a part of that dreaming process.

SPEAKER_00:

As we're working with teams, as we're working with leaders, a lot of times we will ask the question, you know, say it's a change process, or say that it's, you know, when was the last time you lived your dream? Or did you have a dream that you were living out? We will then ask, where were you most alive in that course of either dreaming or fulfilling the dream, you know, landing again and reflecting on the dream and getting ready for the next dream? But when you start to pay attention to when leaders say, like, oh, I like this part or I like that part, you will oftentimes, when we're working with a team, you'll oftentimes see people, you know, with furrowed eyebrows looking at their team and we're like, What? You think that? Like, I like the after, you know, the after part, or I like the wind in my hair. I remember my dad in some of his last days, I said, Dad, I went for a run. He's like, Oh, that's so great. I miss running. I said, What do you miss about it? thinking, you know, what was it? Was it the feel of his legs or the his hard breathing or whatever? He's like, I like the shower after it's done. And it gives me permission to think about, well, what was that about? Was that a moment when he could feel the accomplishment or that it was over, or that it cued the next time he could dream about the next thing to do or to accomplish?

SPEAKER_01:

Aaron Powell What is the call here? The call to action. I heard, you know, earlier you said it's it's about listening, it's about just hearing, you know, as a leader, hearing someone's dream, whatever their is there another call to action or something that you want that you intended for this chapter specifically to inspire leaders towards? Because what I also hear is that if you don't have a home base, a thing to come back to, to return to, that place to reflect and whatever else, like that's maybe a problem. So what what is the I guess secondary call here?

SPEAKER_02:

I think the secondary call is to like post-dream, post-flight, find a place to rest. A place for rest and reflection. That is for self-care as much as anything else, like this conversation started. These are emotional experiences that we are referring to when we're taking flight. There is a time for our bodies, our minds, and our emotions or our heart to rest in the experience that we just had. The point of reflection, I think, is to help us anchor into the place that we came from and the relationships that are there. I also think home is important for us to observe what is happening around us because when we return, I think I can think of so many examples. When people return from something transformational, it's inspiring to others. How can we be a part of a community of people now being more brave because they've seen that we can do it and now they're more willing to be involved? And that invitation to return home and to re-engage our community is in the book because there's one point where all where when when YC is now inspired to dream huge, each animal in the playground now comes to the aid in ways that they did not when OC had a similar dream. And part of the message and theme that we want to create for the reader is to understand that our example can sometimes be the opening or the expression of freedom for other people to help in ways that they were reluctant before. And that is really important because simply being A part of a place can transform that place. And a person that may not have felt at home before can now feel at home because we've come back.

SPEAKER_00:

Because everyone is affected positively or negatively. So it's easy to look at this book, Unfolded, and think, oh, this is about the main character. And if we follow OC, we'll learn that we should have a dream too. And sometimes people get stuck right away, like, well, I don't even have a dream. Well, I don't know what that that might be. And the chapter called Home invites people to think of how does one dream affect the community around you? Is it a point of inspiration? Is it the point of instigating a different kind of action? Is it this opportunity of like, oh, well, maybe I could dream even bigger? And so sometimes we dream in the same lens, and you know, we wonder, like, oh, why C wanted to fly, but maybe in the practice of his dream, he re he might realize, and we don't know, we didn't write this part. He might realize, oh, I actually want to be something else. Oh, this is not what I was trying to do. I was just trying to live someone else's dream. And so a lot of this chapter too is saying, pay attention to your community, realize that just even one dream can have so many ripples and points of inspiration and instigation to other people around you.

SPEAKER_02:

That's good.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that if I was gonna write, I don't know, a part two of this or the questions I would want to see. It'd be yeah, when OC got up there, was it like is OC now running you know a small airline taking people on flights? Was OC like, no, I just wanted to get up and see what was on the top of the trees. I wanted to have a little chat with an eagle, and now I'm just back to this paper, like what you know, what is that, or what is the next thing, or now is space the next, like outer space the the next thing? But I resonate with what you're saying, Linda, about everything is so contextual and connected of OC inspiring this other person to do something, maybe nothing related to flight or paper planes or anything, but I think the more that we can each share our journey and help other people kind of understand where we're coming from, then we all sort of are lifted up in this thing called life that we're doing. So any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_00:

I've been thinking a lot about the word that we use quite a bit in Unfolded, and that is possibilities. In a world of possibilities, I think sometimes when there's so many possibilities, you feel like this overwhelming sense of like, well, then how do I pick one? Or I don't even have one, or maybe in my dreams I don't see a lot of possibilities. And sometimes by just helping someone else with their dream opens up a whole new world of what possibilities might be for you. That's why I think community is so important here, not just in all the supportive characters, but in the world around you, the people around you.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, Brian and Linda, thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing more insights into the home chapter. And thank you, listeners, for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you found value in this episode or any of your other material, we'd appreciate it if you could follow us on all the socials, on YouTube, join our free email newsletter at Leadership Vision Consulting.com slash subscribe and send this out to someone that you think could benefit from it. My name is Nathan Freeberg. I'm Linda Schuberg.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm Brian Schubring.

SPEAKER_01:

And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.